Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.

2.0L engine why so bad.

Specific discussion about the E89 2009 Z4 (sDrive35is, sDrive35i, sDrive30i, sDrive23i)
User avatar
SteveSmith
Member
Member
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:33 am

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by SteveSmith » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:37 pm

I wouldn’t get a 28i for low running cost. I seem to get around 30mpg average now but that’s a lot of motorway miles. I’m confident I could get very similar mpg from a 35i/is.

I love my 28i though and with a map / Tuning Box is happily stays with other cars you just wouldn’t expect it to :thumbsup:
28i M Sport - Alpine White / Canberra Beige, 19" M359’s, H&R’s / Eibachs, BMS Stage 1 - 271bhp, Front Splitter, CF Rear Lip, Alcantara Steering Wheel and Brembo 4 pots

Image

User avatar
Smartbear
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: a barn in Somerset

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by Smartbear » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:21 am

Magicarcher wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 pm
Kugaman1 wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:06 pmNot sure why you think it’s bad?
I read some posts on e90 where it was suggesting the 2.0L engines are unreliable, timing chains and coil packs spring to mind. I was assuming it would be the same engine since lot of componentry share between 3 series and z for gen 1 Z4s. I am not interested in tuning it I've my 3.0L E85 gives all the performance I need, just want reliability and low running costs.
Hi, they’ve been selling the n20 engined z4 for some years now and the forum seems pretty quiet regarding problems, that’s got to be a good sign.
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold

User avatar
Kugaman1
Member
Member
Posts: 367
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:16 pm
Location: North East Scotland

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by Kugaman1 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:36 pm

[quote=JimsZ post_id=<a href="tel:1500462">1500462</a> time=<a href="tel:1515090933">1515090933</a> user_id=20619]Nowt wrong with doing it this way nowadays.

https://www.racechip.co.uk/

This is the way to go id say... :driving:[/quote]

Hmm, really not sure about a plug in chip tune box. Aren’t these just like those generic diesel tuning boxes that just boost pressures, fuel and air flows? I’d rather have a custom tune that’s matched to the car.

roger1
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 pm

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by roger1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:00 pm

Theres no way I would map past 245bhp of the 28i.
Problems with the n20 are
Mitsubishi turbo normally reliable but runs hot in the Z4 the intake seal fails allowing oil in overnight and puff of smoke on startup. Bmw advise a one way pipe install that takes 6 hours that may or may not mask problem-needs a turbo rebuild budget 1k in all which mine did

Timing chain slap with wear breaks plastic guides causing plastic to get caught in the oil pump writing off engine, if caught early needs timing chain and guide replacment. Budget 1k

Oil pump is high tech variable displacement, can fail writing off engine- 12k at a bmw dealer

Valvetronic motor fails due to heat in cylinder head can and does take out ecu which mine did - Budget 2.5k to fix

Ecu aka dme is mounted to hottest part of engine behind oil cooler. Runs crazy hot and will fail sooner or later. Ive put a heat shield behind cooler now

Fuel injectors fail early as do ignition coils due excessive heat and yes can take out ecu

Spark plugs are dear for this engine

Fuel economy whilst much better than the 6 on paper is the same in reality a fair trade for the improved response I guess but dissapointing

Most oil coolers that are plastic crack internally allowing coolant to mix with oil writing off engine bmw had a recall on this as they panicked-poor r and d

Exhaust flap for noise can and does fail

The cylinder walls are aluminium with micron iron coating sprayed on any wear and a rebore is not possible and the engine is likly weaker than it should be

Its not a terrible engine but fact is most people dont know $hit about these engines, the turbo fails at 30k miles evidenced by black internals of the exhausts and they all have them. The dmes are on borrowed time due to the heat and location and the high tech oil pump and poor plastic chain guides are also waiting to fail. I very much dobt these engines will see 150k miles , I could be wrong but I dont think so.

roger1
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 pm

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by roger1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:53 pm


User avatar
Smartbear
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: a barn in Somerset

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by Smartbear » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:55 pm

roger1 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:00 pmTheres no way I would map past 245bhp of the 28i.
Problems with the n20 are
Mitsubishi turbo normally reliable but runs hot in the Z4 the intake seal fails allowing oil in overnight and puff of smoke on startup. Bmw advise a one way pipe install that takes 6 hours that may or may not mask problem-needs a turbo rebuild budget 1k in all which mine did

Timing chain slap with wear breaks plastic guides causing plastic to get caught in the oil pump writing off engine, if caught early needs timing chain and guide replacment. Budget 1k

Oil pump is high tech variable displacement, can fail writing off engine- 12k at a bmw dealer

Valvetronic motor fails due to heat in cylinder head can and does take out ecu which mine did - Budget 2.5k to fix

Ecu aka dme is mounted to hottest part of engine behind oil cooler. Runs crazy hot and will fail sooner or later. Ive put a heat shield behind cooler now

Fuel injectors fail early as do ignition coils due excessive heat and yes can take out ecu

Spark plugs are dear for this engine

Fuel economy whilst much better than the 6 on paper is the same in reality a fair trade for the improved response I guess but dissapointing

Most oil coolers that are plastic crack internally allowing coolant to mix with oil writing off engine bmw had a recall on this as they panicked-poor r and d

Exhaust flap for noise can and does fail

The cylinder walls are aluminium with micron iron coating sprayed on any wear and a rebore is not possible and the engine is likly weaker than it should be

Its not a terrible engine but fact is most people dont know $hit about these engines, the turbo fails at 30k miles evidenced by black internals of the exhausts and they all have them. The dmes are on borrowed time due to the heat and location and the high tech oil pump and poor plastic chain guides are also waiting to fail. I very much dobt these engines will see 150k miles , I could be wrong but I dont think so.
That’s strange, nobody on here seems to have suffered from the multitude of disasters you list? I’d better go & check mine before it disintegrates (it’s just gone over 30k) :o
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold

User avatar
Smartbear
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: a barn in Somerset

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by Smartbear » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:35 pm

Magicarcher wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 pm
Kugaman1 wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:06 pmNot sure why you think it’s bad?
I read some posts on e90 where it was suggesting the 2.0L engines are unreliable, timing chains and coil packs spring to mind. I was assuming it would be the same engine since lot of componentry share between 3 series and z for gen 1 Z4s. I am not interested in tuning it I've my 3.0L E85 gives all the performance I need, just want reliability and low running costs.
Hi, You do realise that the e89 n20 engine shares nothing with the 2litre e85 lump?
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold

User avatar
Kugaman1
Member
Member
Posts: 367
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:16 pm
Location: North East Scotland

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by Kugaman1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:39 pm

Smartbear wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:35 pm
Magicarcher wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 pm
Kugaman1 wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:06 pmNot sure why you think it’s bad?
I read some posts on e90 where it was suggesting the 2.0L engines are unreliable, timing chains and coil packs spring to mind. I was assuming it would be the same engine since lot of componentry share between 3 series and z for gen 1 Z4s. I am not interested in tuning it I've my 3.0L E85 gives all the performance I need, just want reliability and low running costs.
Hi, You do realise that the e89 n20 engine shares nothing with the 2litre e85 lump?
Rob
I was thinking the same myself Rob.....I did a lot of research before I swapped to the 2.0 and saw no reports of engine issues anywhere. In fact, they made the engine right up to the last day of production and it was a big seller. There are also a fair few higher mile 2.0s knocking about for sale so maybe they don't quite fall apart after 30k?
Not sure what Magicarcher is talking about.....

User avatar
Smartbear
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: a barn in Somerset

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by Smartbear » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:45 pm

Kugaman1 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:39 pm
Smartbear wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:35 pm
Magicarcher wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 pm
I read some posts on e90 where it was suggesting the 2.0L engines are unreliable, timing chains and coil packs spring to mind. I was assuming it would be the same engine since lot of componentry share between 3 series and z for gen 1 Z4s. I am not interested in tuning it I've my 3.0L E85 gives all the performance I need, just want reliability and low running costs.
Hi, You do realise that the e89 n20 engine shares nothing with the 2litre e85 lump?
Rob
I was thinking the same myself Rob.....I did a lot of research before I swapped to the 2.0 and saw no reports of engine issues anywhere. In fact, they made the engine right up to the last day of production and it was a big seller. There are also a fair few higher mile 2.0s knocking about for sale so maybe they don't quite fall apart after 30k?
Not sure what Magicarcher is talking about.....
I think the op has his n43 & n20 wires crossed :?
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold

roger1
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 pm

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by roger1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:35 pm

Kugaman1 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:39 pm
Smartbear wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:35 pm
Magicarcher wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 pm I read some posts on e90 where it was suggesting the 2.0L engines are unreliable, timing chains and coil packs spring to mind. I was assuming it would be the same engine since lot of componentry share between 3 series and z for gen 1 Z4s. I am not interested in tuning it I've my 3.0L E85 gives all the performance I need, just want reliability and low running costs.
Hi, You do realise that the e89 n20 engine shares nothing with the 2litre e85 lump?
Rob
I was thinking the same myself Rob.....I did a lot of research before I swapped to the 2.0 and saw no reports of engine issues anywhere. In fact, they made the engine right up to the last day of production and it was a big seller. There are also a fair few higher mile 2.0s knocking about for sale so maybe they don't quite fall apart after 30k?
Not sure what Magicarcher is talking about.....
Im definately dicussing the n20 im not sure about Op. Would be great to see some ads for high miles n20 or better yet forum members.
My info comes from my own experiance buying a 2013 28i with warranted miles of 33000 currently at 44k. Also lots of info from Bmw Technician Andreas on the web, do a search for n20 bmw technician. He has also had valves breaking and rod bearings fail as well as the common turbo issue and injectors as well as chain issues.

roger1
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 pm

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by roger1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:37 pm

Ps his advice is not to own one of these out of warranty. To be noted is the n20 is much more common in the usa where diesel hasnt taken over.

User avatar
Smartbear
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: a barn in Somerset

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by Smartbear » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:37 pm

roger1 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:35 pm
Kugaman1 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:39 pm
Smartbear wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:35 pm

Hi, You do realise that the e89 n20 engine shares nothing with the 2litre e85 lump?
Rob
I was thinking the same myself Rob.....I did a lot of research before I swapped to the 2.0 and saw no reports of engine issues anywhere. In fact, they made the engine right up to the last day of production and it was a big seller. There are also a fair few higher mile 2.0s knocking about for sale so maybe they don't quite fall apart after 30k?
Not sure what Magicarcher is talking about.....
Im definately dicussing the n20 im not sure about Op. Would be great to see some ads for high miles n20 or better yet forum members.
My info comes from my own experiance buying a 2013 28i with warranted miles of 33000 currently at 44k. Also lots of info from Bmw Technician Andreas on the web, do a search for n20 bmw technician. He has also had valves breaking and rod bearings fail as well as the common turbo issue and injectors as well as chain issues.
Strange how we’ve not had horror stories on this forum?
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold

roger1
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 pm

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by roger1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:52 pm

It is actually, and it could well be due to ambient temps in california where andreas of bmw technican.com is based or it could be due to much fewer n20s in the uk vs the usa as diesel is preferred by new car buyers for prestige cars due to co2 and BIK tax.
All n20s ive seen have dark exhausts which tells me the turbos are all shot and people dont realise or ignore it. Look for smoke first thing in the morning.
The dme does run very hot due to being behind the oil cooler and mountex on the engine would you mount the brain with all the electronics that costs 2k there? Ive resorted to cutting the insulation over the valvetronic motor away to keep it cooler and put a heat shielf behind the cooler. The location still sucks and I would prefer to move it off the engine and extend the wires.

User avatar
Smartbear
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: a barn in Somerset

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by Smartbear » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:16 pm

roger1 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:52 pmIt is actually, and it could well be due to ambient temps in california where andreas of bmw technican.com is based or it could be due to much fewer n20s in the uk vs the usa as diesel is preferred by new car buyers for prestige cars due to co2 and BIK tax.
All n20s ive seen have dark exhausts which tells me the turbos are all shot and people dont realise or ignore it. Look for smoke first thing in the morning.
The dme does run very hot due to being behind the oil cooler and mountex on the engine would you mount the brain with all the electronics that costs 2k there? Ive resorted to cutting the insulation over the valvetronic motor away to keep it cooler and put a heat shielf behind the cooler. The location still sucks and I would prefer to move it off the engine and extend the wires.
Dark exhausts don’t signify a shot turbo, it’s normal. Worn turbo seals would mean copious amounts of engine oil getting burnt & leaving a smoke trail like the red arrows, I’ve not seen an n20 car with those traits :?
I’ve never heard of a dme getting cooked either.
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold

roger1
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 pm

2.0L engine why so bad.

Post by roger1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:29 pm

Smartbear wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:16 pm
roger1 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:52 pmIt is actually, and it could well be due to ambient temps in california where andreas of bmw technican.com is based or it could be due to much fewer n20s in the uk vs the usa as diesel is preferred by new car buyers for prestige cars due to co2 and BIK tax.
All n20s ive seen have dark exhausts which tells me the turbos are all shot and people dont realise or ignore it. Look for smoke first thing in the morning.
The dme does run very hot due to being behind the oil cooler and mountex on the engine would you mount the brain with all the electronics that costs 2k there? Ive resorted to cutting the insulation over the valvetronic motor away to keep it cooler and put a heat shielf behind the cooler. The location still sucks and I would prefer to move it off the engine and extend the wires.
Dark exhausts don’t signify a shot turbo, it’s normal. Worn turbo seals would mean copious amounts of engine oil getting burnt & leaving a smoke trail like the red arrows, I’ve not seen an n20 car with those traits :?
I’ve never heard of a dme getting cooked either.
Rob
Lots of examples on youtube , the smoke is only on startup due to a seal allowing oil overnight to enter the turbo on starting is sucked into the engine, after a few seconds this clears. You can tell also by the strangd smell outside if you start it and go around back.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7iWJ5OwG99Q
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=n20%20t ... noise&sm=1

and here
https://bmwtechnician.com/2016/05/16/n20-turbo-update/

Post Reply