3.0si or Z4m Roadster

AndyT · Post by **AndyT** » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:55 pm

I've been looking for a good example Manual Z4 3.0 or 3.0si for a while now and I'm struggling to find one that's ticking all the boxes, colour, spec, condition, mileage and not 7+ owners.

I don't mind doing some work on it i.e. suspension etc but don't want to pay top price for a poor example.

I'm probably being too picky but I'm after this being a long term keeper (not my usual 6 month and I'm bored) and although I want it to look the part, it's the drive I'm really interested in. I have a 430d auto xdrive coupe as my daily which is quick and refined but not much fun.

I've seen a really good looking si but at £9k this has started me thinking about a Z4m which would need to be a higher mileage one and another £6k or so but would the M be worth it, are they that much better? Plus if I get one at 80k miles and do 10k spirited driving a year am I going to kill it in no time? I'm buying to drive not as investment but don't want to loose all £15k - £18k in à couple of years either when it gets over 100k.

Any thoughts, experiences, suggestions would be really appreciated.

DPG · Post by **DPG** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:40 am

Go for the M if you can afford it (and the running costs).

Great cars and you can pick up some decent examples for £13 - £15k.

AndyT · Post by **AndyT** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:00 am

DPG wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:40 am Go for the M if you can afford it (and the running costs).

Great cars and you can pick up some decent examples for £13 - £15k.

Thanks, I noticed you've a TTS in your signature, how do you find that compared to a Z4?

griffnut · Post by **griffnut** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:43 am

Personally I would be looking at a lower mileage car, due to the fact that as the miles mount up more components tend fail. So, if you buy a high mileage car, costs will be an on going problem, not if but when.

The M cars have issues with engines as you know - Vanos wear and big end shell bearing wear. The problem with the big end shell wear, is that the shell bearing can be changed as we know, but how badly was the crank worn and do the new shell bearings mask a problem with a worn crankshaft.

The other problem with an M is how hard has it been driven from cold, since highly tuned engines need to get to operating temperature before being driven hard.

A 3.0 Si is no where near as fast as the M, but how often can that speed be used in the real world. Speed cameras, traffic jams, poorly repaired pot-holed roads - the list is endless.

Quite a few years ago I purchased a low mileage Z3M, because I liked the idea of press a button and the roof lowers plus the I had read all the reviews and it seemed like a good idea at the time. So I traded in my TVR Griffith 500 for the Z3M, but I soon realised that it was a mistake - the M was not as fast, nor as comfortable as the Griff and I was always worrying about noises coming from the vanos, although the car had only done 5k miles.

It's a tough choice, but never buy in haste.

AndyT · Post by **AndyT** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:30 am

Thanks griffnut, you make a lot of valid points.

It's not so much the speed I'm after more fun handling on b roads, and a car to be proud of and loose countless hours driving and looking after.

My hearts set on an e85 as I had a 2.5 when they first came out and feel the e89 is a bit big and heavy and dare I say too comfortable, more of a cruiser. My head says get a nearly new mx5 or Abarth 124 for a little more money to an M but am I really going to enjoy it as much, also the newer cars won't have the maintenance costs but will have significant depreciation over next 3-5 years.

mr.tourette · Post by **mr.tourette** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:52 am

personally I'd be looking at a low mileage si for your needs, as fantastic as the M is at 10k miles a years its gonna cost a chunk to run and maintain, but if you don't mind shelling out and you want amazing performance then the M is a no brainer

mr wilks · Post by **mr wilks** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:53 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:30 am Thanks griffnut, you make a lot of valid points.

It's not so much the speed I'm after more fun handling on b roads, and a car to be proud of and loose countless hours driving and looking after.

My hearts set on an e85 as I had a 2.5 when they first came out and feel the e89 is a bit big and heavy and dare I say too comfortable, more of a cruiser. My head says get a nearly new mx5 or Abarth 124 for a little more money to an M but am I really going to enjoy it as much, also the newer cars won't have the maintenance costs but will have significant depreciation over next 3-5 years.

You really need to try one of each ideally back to back on the same roads .
Ive had 3 x ZMRs & 3 x 3.0 Si roadsters , there really isn't a lot to set them apart in terms of outright speed & how they accelerate ( 0-60 difference is under 1 sec so virtually indistinguishable for most drivers ) , granted the S54 has more torque but they do need working pretty hard to feel it , the N52 is a great engine & whilst the numbers show 262bhp V 338bhp it isn't that noticeable behind the wheel .
The real differences are in the handling , steering , geometry & brakes , the M car really flatters the driver into thinking they are great , the Si you get less confidence from when hitting bends at silly numbers .
A few years back i did a euro trip in my 3.0Si roadster with 5 Z4MRs , we were really cracking on at times , silly speeds (80-90-100mph) in & out of bends & only then did i feel the difference showed , the Si needed extra braking into bends & therefore extra throttle out to keep pace with the S54 , ive done the same trip with my own ZM & only then realised i was on the ragged edge with the Si but never flustered in the S54 .
The other direct comparisons that favour the Si are the obvious ones , 36/38mpg is easy enough , £250 yr less VED , less to buy initially , less to maintain & no real big issues to ever worry about taking care of .
As a summer car for special days / roadtrips buy the ZM their character & noise alone is worth the extra spend but if you plan a 12 month driver adding considerable mileage the Si makes far more sense

buzyg · Post by **buzyg** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:58 pm

Mr Wilks knows his Zeds. Take heed of what he says.

Me I have only ever owned an ///MR. No plans to ever swap it for another Zed. (Unless Byron wants to give me his.

)

Point being, if it's a keeper and you can afford it. Then the ///MR would always be my personal choice. As it is simply the most fun Zed to own.

greg81 · Post by **greg81** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:04 pm

Managing 10k miles of spirited driving a year is quite an achievement! If you can manage 200+ miles like that every week then I'm incredibly envious

Beedub · Post by **Beedub** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:06 pm

think id go with the Si personally.... The ///M maintenance and potential big bill is always looming, just a matter of time!

Mr Tidy · Post by **Mr Tidy** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:55 pm

Some great advice there from mr wilks, and he's probably had more Z4s than anyone.

Trying one of each has to be the best place to start, but if you drive an M be prepared for your heart to try to take over from your head!

After 5 years of 3.0Si (albeit E86 shaped) I went to look at an MC earlier this year, and the S54 engine is just amazing! Sadly I didn't get to drive it far as the seller had it on SORN, but far enough to realise how much better the steering felt (it's hydraulic on an M rather than the electric system on all other Z4s).

I was undecided and told the seller I would let him know. I spent the 100+ mile drive home considering how often I would be able to use the additional performance of the M and it wouldn't have been more than a few miles.

So in the end I decided to stick with my 3.0Si as I couldn't justify almost twice the price to buy and probably almost double the running costs, but whether that bothers you only you can decide.

According to a database someone on here put together the UK only got 695 3.0Si Roadsters and 614 M Roadsters, so there are never going to be many around at any one time.

Just to pick up on something you mentioned, I wouldn't be too concerned about the number of previous owners - cars like these seem to change hands quite often. Usually because circumstances change, like becoming a parent, a change in commute, etc.

Anyway good luck finding your Z4.

Just noticed this one for sale on here if it's of any interest:- viewtopic.php?f=41&t=117565

FWIW Lynchy's other Z is an MR - and it looks stunning.

Ewazix · Post by **Ewazix** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:42 am

Some really balanced and informative posts based on experience, top thread

AndyT · Post by **AndyT** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:39 am

Thank you all for the great feedback, it is really appreciated.

Unfortunately after owning nearly 50 cars in the last 25 years I've learnt the heart always wins but is an absolute idiot.

One day I'll listen to the head instead but can't see it being this time or else I probably wouldn't be looking at an e85.

Whilst out looking yesterday I came across a Nissan 350z Nismo which is something the heart completely fell in love with but still can't shake the desire for a z4. In an ideal world I'd have both.

john-e89 · Post by **john-e89** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:49 am

You could pick up an M with much less than 80k miles for your £15k Andy, it’s a buyers market at the moment and that’s a healthy sum you’ve got. Mr Wilkes has gone over the running costs V an Si, which is a fantastic car, loved mine, but will you always be itching to get into an M..? I’ll freely admit I’m a life is too short sort and will mostly say go for what the heart says, but it’s something to consider. Having said that I’m struggling to think of anything that is a particular weak point on an Si except the dreaded sticky steering, but that’s easily enough dealt with. They’re quite possibly the best roadster Zed car you can buy as an all rounder. Quite honestly imo the worst thing about an M is they’re a hard/frustrating car to drive slowly, you constantly want to press on in it such is the grin when doing so, I only ever use mine when the tourists etc, have gone home and you get some free roads, then it comes into its own. Suspension is questionable at best however, they really are to stiff and crashy, there’s a guy on here, Exdos, that once said if he couldn’t have changed the springs and struts on an M than he wouldn’t buy one, but again that’s nothing that can’t be dealt with, but obviously there are costs going down the very slippery modding route..

Just some things to throw into the mix and only in my opinion of course. Best of luck, you’ve got yourself a head scratcher there squire....

ph001 · Post by **ph001** » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:52 am

I would say 3.0Si too, they can certainly be made to handle very well with a csl geometry setup and really the only noticeable power difference is up past 5,000rpm. The electric steering isn’t the disaster that many say it is and even the lack of lsd isn’t noticeable 9 times out of 10. On balance, it’s the more sensible purchase, but then whoever bought an M with their head! The M’s certainly pull on your heart strings.

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