ACTIVE AUTOWERKE's Stage 1 Used on an E85?

[LaserMark4]

I spoke at length with Active Autowerkes this morning regarding their "BMW E46 330 SUPERCHARGER KIT LEVEL 1 BY BMW TUNER" (Model 12-016). They seem to say there would not be significant issues with installing this on the M5430 of an E85-- 2003 Z4 3.0i (and assumed the vehicle has the MS43 ECU).

Anyone had experience if this unit has been installed on the Z4? Obstacles?

Here's the exact supercharger: https://bit.ly/2VIs9gQ

[wonkydonkey]

What makes it $1,000 more expensive than the well-known Z4-specific ESS kit, I wonder?

https://esstuning.com/bmw/e85-z4-series/z4-3-0i-m54/

[LaserMark4]

What makes it $1,000 more expensive than the well-known Z4-specific ESS kit, I wonder?

https://esstuning.com/bmw/e85-z4-series/z4-3-0i-m54/

Quite a few features and technology are different. The ESS and VF Engineering are very similar, utilizing the Vortech V3Si centrifugal blower. The Vortech uses uses helical cut gears. Neither kit provides blow off valves nor any no oil cooler (both are self-contained lubrication system) and both run at 6 psi. The Vortech has no external oil reservoir, cooler, nor oil filter for the blower system. ESS is also out of Norway and been difficult to connect with and follow thru.

The Active Autowerkes utilizes a Rotrex C38-81 trim supercharger which appears to be a higher grade blower that operates in much higher speeds (up to 90k rpm). They describe it as:

• Reliability – rolling elements with patented ramp effect preventing excessive stress

• Low NVH – no gears. Planet rollers give silent operation and less vibration

• Efficiency - 97% efficient

• Wide Range - 300 - 660 hp

Here is their technology page: https://www.rotrex.com/technology/

The AA also includes a blow off valve, an oil cooler/exchanger, an oil canister/reservoir (more volume of cooling oil), and an oil filter.... hence lowering the temps in the cooler and extending the life of the blower as well I would think. And less impact on the engine.

I also think AA has more advanced tuning in house after having visited with both the shops. But I'm still trying to see if this E46/330i unit will match up to the M5430 of the Z4.

[LaserMark4]

What makes it $1,000 more expensive than the well-known Z4-specific ESS kit, I wonder?

https://esstuning.com/bmw/e85-z4-series/z4-3-0i-m54/

Wonky.... have you had some experience with Rotrex?? Thoughts?

[wonkydonkey]

There's quite a lot more potential for power then, from the sounds of it. I don't have any experience of them but was interested in the differences.

[GuidoK]

I also spoke with AA about the same supercharger kit when I was looking around for a supercharger (that was 8 years ago), but back then I got very mixed/contradicting reactions from them depending on who I spoke with. I said that rerouting the pipework would be no problem for me.
After speaking with ESS they suspected that AA maybe didnt have a tune for the z4 ecu (different from the e46). Its not the hardware thats the hard bit of a supercharger kit, its the tune, especially at these amounts of horsepower (a tune is more than just the injector/ignition timing mappings, there are loads of safety mappings that will protest to the high horsepower numbers and they are different from the e46 ecu, and within both e46 and e85 there are also maybe 10 or 20 different software versions. If one of them isnt altered correctly, you will get codes, emergency running modes, or reduced timings from your ecu in certain conditions (could be temperature related, altitude related, speed related etc etc)).

As far as comparison Vortech V3si and Rotrex C38-81 goes I wouldnt bother; they are both accomplisched and proven units. The comparison you make is not really important. If you want to make a comparison, look at the compressor maps (learn how to read a compressor map and how to do the calculations) in relation with your engine and the amount of boost and rpm the compressor is making in the setup and only then you can say something about whether one or the other compressor is more or less suitable.

Personally I wouldnt buy a kit from a company that has no hands on experience with fitting that kit on that actual car, but if you go that route, be certain to have the actual tuning done at AA on their dyno, and book a second session after a few months or so to tune out the niggles after you've done 5-10k miles on it and know when it performs and when not.

[LaserMark4]

...After speaking with ESS they suspected that AA maybe didnt have a tune for the z4 ecu (different from the e46). Its not the hardware thats the hard bit of a supercharger kit, its the tune, especially at these amounts of horsepower (a tune is more than just the injector/ignition timing mappings, there are loads of safety mappings that will protest to the high horsepower numbers and they are different from the e46 ecu, and within both e46 and e85 there are also maybe 10 or 20 different software versions. If one of them isnt altered correctly, you will get codes, emergency running modes, or reduced timings from your ecu in certain conditions (could be temperature related, altitude related, speed related etc etc)).

Great information and perspectives, GuidoK! One of the real draws to using VF Engineering is they will do the install and before/after/followup tune in-house at their manufacturing plant in Anaheim (all told for $1,500), which I agree with you is the very BEST of all worlds in terms of getting the setup correct. I've come to the conclusion with you that tuning is the KEY.

I've seen those compressor maps but have no clue yet how to read them (Here's the one for the Rotrex for the E46: https://rotrex.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... -Range.pdf Looks like that is a good skill to learn to better understand what's going on. I am in agreement with you that AA hesitated on the Z4 and did not find any legacy dyno's or history of any Z4 installs, which certainly is a showstopper. I have no desire to be a guinea pig in testing an unproven setup. VF has quite a few installs on the Z4 I believe, but I need to drill that down. ESS as well-- maybe more.

So I think I've come full circle back to either ESS or VF Engineering-- and installing at the factory is a huge plus is I can get the car in that vicinity.

[LaserMark4]

Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch

From the looks of your listing, you've done some SERIOUS work on your unit- ;>) You have the screw/roots supercharger, correct (the very BEST setup, IMO)? It sounds like that unit is out of business and they are going as I mentioned with Vortech/centrifugal.

Would you do an FI/SC again? Have you been pleased with ESS?

[GuidoK]

So I think I've come full circle back to either ESS or VF Engineering-- and installing at the factory is a huge plus is I can get the car in that vicinity.

I once made a post on e46fanatics regarding someone who wanted to build his own supercharger on his m54b30 (so e46 330i) based on the eaton m45/62/90 series where I gave him an example of calculations on various compressormaps where he would end up in terms of range.
Mind you, these are coarse calculations as there has been no temperature change taken into account (even intercooling doesnt get your temps back to room temperature), so the exact place of the points I dotted is different from where I put them.
But taking temperature into account gets very difficult.
This is that topic (and my conclusion was that he should definately take the m90 for a 3L engine).
https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1192081
In that topic I also plotted my twinscrew compressor with the amount of boost ESS gave it for the TS2+ pulley, which is quite a good match but if I want to fit an even smaller pulley, my compressor can easily take that and will become even a little bit more efficient (I now work at 8,5psi but 10 would be very interesting provided it wont detonate...

The meaning of the dots is where the pressure and air intake is in the efficiency graph at maximum rpm and maximum boost, so where you have the maximum power usually (generally speaking).
For a twinscrew you can draw a horizontal line from that point to the left and that describes how efficient the compressor works throughout the revrange (because a twinscrew is a volumetric compressor and that always gives the same amount of boost from ~1000rpm)
For a centrifugal compressor its way more difficult, as the boost gradually builds up. So that is a somewhat upsweeping line in a curve from 0 to that point.

Now, I did those same calculations for the c38-81, where I gave 2 dots: the red one is the same red dots as the ones in the e46fanatics topic (so based on 5psi boost and 6500rpm redline) and the green one is based on the Active Autowerke specs, so 7k redline (watch out, this is pretty high for an engine with hydraulic valve adjusters), and 8psi boost.


You can immediately see that the c38-81 is a very potent compressor (that is not necessarily a good thing!)
For example its way to big for a 3L engine that revs to 6500rpm and has 5psi for boost.

For 8psi and 7000k rpm its a whole lot better. So its not a complete mismatch that AA did (ok they wouldnt do that as they've been making supercharger sets for over 2 decades now....
But I cant say that if it would be better than a vortech 3sci, or even if its better than a rotrex c38-71 or c38-61.
Maybe for top horsepower its the best rotrex, but for mid power range a smaller one might be better. Lots of tuners choose the top power one because that gives the highest horsepower range and that sells the best.
The reason I say this is that the c38-81 has been used in a lot of m3 setups. but that engine is bigger (0.2L) and revs higher (8,5k versus 7k for the AA tune) so that needs more air. In the past for the m54b30 engine a smaller size (C30-94) has been used and thats the size rotrex themselves are referring to (but for all I know that one might be on the small side, I havent looked at the data or done calculations)
But for example Gpower (a geman supercharger tuner) has in a lot of their kits the tendency to focus more on midrange power. Might be down on top power but gives a different (more aggressive) feel to the engine/car.
I suspect that the high horsepower Gpower sets might not be available anymore for the m54b30 engine. When I informed 8 years ago they had them, but back then they only had factory install and that made the kit expensive. I only wanted diy install, as that is what I do for a hobby.

Even though the info above gives some pointers, it doesnt contain all info. For instance how much rpm the pully from the compressor has to turn can also be a decision factor, if that has to be really high, you need a very small pulley. A small pulley has very little grab on the belt and can only relay very little power. If the compressor needs more power than that, you get belt slip. That means loss in power, more belt wear etc. But I guess that's not a real issue on these kits, looking at stock pulley sizes rotrex suggests.

A Twinscrew is not necessarily the best supercharger. If you only need top power, a centrifugal supercharger is more efficient, so on a drag strip that will be faster depending on how close your gear ratio's are.
However a twinscrew gives boost all the time, so at 1500rpm it already pulls much harder than the stock engine whereas the centrifugal supercharger will drive the same as the stock engine (depending on the choice of supercharger, a centrifugal one will start to build up real boost at 3-4,5krpm and will continue to increase till redline)
Another advantage of a centrifugal supercharger is that because its more efficient and only builds up boost in the high range (so you dont have boost all the time) it also generates less heat (the air leaving the supercharger is of lower temperature with the same boost, if the size of the supercharger is well matched to the engine size/needs.
That means that if you want to build a cheap supercharger set you can get away with no intercooling on low boost setups (5psi etc).
With a twinscrew (and certainly a roots, that has a way lower efficiency than twinscrew) I would never recommend that. Always use some sort of intercooling with those type of superchargers.

With my setup I'm very pleased although my car is loud (headers) and the tuning runs a bit rich (you smell that, but thats better for preserving the valve seats). As for tuning, on my first setup (no camshafts) it had the strange tendency to get into emergency mode on high altitude (above 1500m). With camshafts, headers and specific tune for that that was gone. Now it only sometimes pulls the timing every other second in specific situations (which you feel in acceleration and total power) and sometimes not.
That is something I hope to solve with an aftermarket ECu and custom tuning.
The e46 ESS tuning doesnt have that problem (There are people that convert their z4 specifically to e46 ECU and wiring loom etc to solve this). So this also shows that a well renound tuner, who can perfectly tune e46'es (both 330i and also m3's they had a car that held the nordschleife record for years) also has problems tuning a Z4. And one of the tuners in norway even drove a z4 himself with TS2 setup.
So that shows that tuning, once you get into the higher HP's with the stock ecu gets really really difficult to get 'factory driving smoothness'

[Capa]

That's a cracking post, that.

I mean I've no interest in going FI on mine, but what a read.

[LaserMark4]

So I think I've come full circle back to either ESS or VF Engineering-- and installing at the factory is a huge plus is I can get the car in that vicinity.

I once made a post on e46fanatics regarding someone who wanted to build his own supercharger on his m54b30 (so e46 330i) based on the eaton m45/62/90 series where I gave him an example of calculations on various compressormaps where he would end up in terms of range.
Mind you, these are coarse calculations as there has been no temperature change taken into account (even intercooling doesnt get your temps back to room temperature), so the exact place of the points I dotted is different from where I put them.
But taking temperature into account gets very difficult......

So sorry I missed this wonderful post you did until now, GuidoK. This has some serious meat that I am going to have to chew on with some GREAT info for the project! Still trying to look at all the options and possible solutions. Thanks again for the lengthy, detailed post. I will try to respond back shortly with some reactions to your info here.