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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
- Liam22
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
I wanted to wait until I had the rear hubs off the car before deciding whether to replace the bushes.
Items 2 & 3 here
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=33_1139
The upper bushes/joints have a small amount of play, which will become a large amount of play very quickly with track use.
Read this great post from Curtis about bushes and noticed that top and bottom bushes are the same size, and might that the ball joint type can be fitted in both locations.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4162&p=59370#p59370
Strongflex do a hard bush but given that BMW fitted a ball joint (not just a rubber bush) for the upper wishbone, I'm worried that PU type bushes may not be suitable.
https://www.strongflex.eu/en/bmw-e36/39 ... 01674.html
Any thoughts or experience here? Is going OEM top and bottom a better approach for track work? Or will reduced suspension travel on stiff springs negate that, and PU will be fine?
Items 2 & 3 here
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=33_1139
The upper bushes/joints have a small amount of play, which will become a large amount of play very quickly with track use.
Read this great post from Curtis about bushes and noticed that top and bottom bushes are the same size, and might that the ball joint type can be fitted in both locations.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4162&p=59370#p59370
Strongflex do a hard bush but given that BMW fitted a ball joint (not just a rubber bush) for the upper wishbone, I'm worried that PU type bushes may not be suitable.
https://www.strongflex.eu/en/bmw-e36/39 ... 01674.html
Any thoughts or experience here? Is going OEM top and bottom a better approach for track work? Or will reduced suspension travel on stiff springs negate that, and PU will be fine?
- Darkangelv2
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
Did you make a decision on this in the end?Liam22 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:24 pm I wanted to wait until I had the rear hubs off the car before deciding whether to replace the bushes.
Any thoughts or experience here? Is going OEM top and bottom a better approach for track work? Or will reduced suspension travel on stiff springs negate that, and PU will be fine?
I’m at the same point and want to understand the reasoning why you might go for solid over ball joints.
BMW Z4 2006 2.5SI - 437M Wheels - Strut Brace - H&R ARBs
3.0si Brake Conversion - Custom Nappa Sport Interior - Z4M Bumper+Bonnet -
BC Racing BR Coilovers - AFE Stage 2
3.0si Brake Conversion - Custom Nappa Sport Interior - Z4M Bumper+Bonnet -
BC Racing BR Coilovers - AFE Stage 2
- GuidoK
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
Both PU and the ball joint are fine.
I've used the shore90A PU bushing for 6 or 7 years now, but the ball joint will be just as good (the z4m uses the same ball joint for the upper and lower outer bushing/pivot point)
The ball joint might even be cheaper in the aftermarket (but be sure to get a quality one like lemforder or febi), but is more difficult to fit obviously (press fit versus hand fit)
I've used the shore90A PU bushing for 6 or 7 years now, but the ball joint will be just as good (the z4m uses the same ball joint for the upper and lower outer bushing/pivot point)
The ball joint might even be cheaper in the aftermarket (but be sure to get a quality one like lemforder or febi), but is more difficult to fit obviously (press fit versus hand fit)
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
- Liam22
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- Jakg
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
I would go balljoint over polyurethane as per M3 on it.
They can be very stuck and difficult to be remove without a proper tool (something hydraulic).
They can be very stuck and difficult to be remove without a proper tool (something hydraulic).
- Darkangelv2
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
Thanks all for your input - It does seem that most seem to suggest keeping it stock. I'll check the condition of mine before i attack my car's rear end.
The limiting factor for me is the lack of a press. I guess part of the reason for the creation of the poly 'component' version is so that home mechanics like me can fit them more easily (bit like the RTAB).
The limiting factor for me is the lack of a press. I guess part of the reason for the creation of the poly 'component' version is so that home mechanics like me can fit them more easily (bit like the RTAB).
BMW Z4 2006 2.5SI - 437M Wheels - Strut Brace - H&R ARBs
3.0si Brake Conversion - Custom Nappa Sport Interior - Z4M Bumper+Bonnet -
BC Racing BR Coilovers - AFE Stage 2
3.0si Brake Conversion - Custom Nappa Sport Interior - Z4M Bumper+Bonnet -
BC Racing BR Coilovers - AFE Stage 2
- Jakg
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
I didn't say stock, just the same design. The M3 part is different (stiffer?).Darkangelv2 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 1:12 pm The limiting factor for me is the lack of a press. I guess part of the reason for the creation of the poly 'component' version is so that home mechanics like me can fit them more easily (bit like the RTAB).
Even with a press, you'd need to remove the part from the car, which is a lot more work.
It's not cheap, but if you do much work with bushes one of these - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Ton-Tonne ... ctupt=true - can come in super handy.
You can see it in use here replacing the balljoint on my RenaultSport Megane - without removing the arm from the car.
- Darkangelv2
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
Ah OK, didn't realise the M3 component was different. I'll check it out.Jakg wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 3:03 pmI didn't say stock, just the same design. The M3 part is different (stiffer?).Darkangelv2 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 1:12 pm The limiting factor for me is the lack of a press. I guess part of the reason for the creation of the poly 'component' version is so that home mechanics like me can fit them more easily (bit like the RTAB).
BMW Z4 2006 2.5SI - 437M Wheels - Strut Brace - H&R ARBs
3.0si Brake Conversion - Custom Nappa Sport Interior - Z4M Bumper+Bonnet -
BC Racing BR Coilovers - AFE Stage 2
3.0si Brake Conversion - Custom Nappa Sport Interior - Z4M Bumper+Bonnet -
BC Racing BR Coilovers - AFE Stage 2
- GuidoK
- Lifer
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
The M3 has balljoints for upper and lower outer pivot points, just like the z4m.Darkangelv2 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 5:01 pm
Ah OK, didn't realise the M3 component was different. I'll check it out.
You can check the configuration in realoem and the likes.
I might be very stupid, but how is thàt tool going to help replace the outer upper and lower balljoints/bushings on the z4 trailing arm?Jakg wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 3:03 pm
It's not cheap, but if you do much work with bushes one of these - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Ton-Tonne ... ctupt=true - can come in super handy.
The way I look at it, that'll be impossible to fit, so if he buys that tool for this job, he's throwing away money imho.
Imho there are way better kits for replacing bushings for similar money that are especially designed for that (although there's no such thing as too many tools of course...)
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
- Jakg
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
It's a tight fit, but it works. You don't need to use the big bit at the bottom, here's it doing the RTABs.GuidoK wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 7:39 pm I might be very stupid, but how is thàt tool going to help replace the outer upper and lower balljoints/bushings on the z4 trailing arm?
The way I look at it, that'll be impossible to fit, so if he buys that tool for this job, he's throwing away money imho.
Imho there are way better kits for replacing bushings for similar money that are especially designed for that (although there's no such thing as too many tools of course...)
I used it on my MG ZT to do the upper rear ball joints, which uses the same bushes and a very very similar rear trailing arm setup.
The "special tools" are all a weak bit of metal on a threaded rod. I made one and it was useless. Even with my 10 ton hydraulic ram it was hard work, but I got it shifted.
- GuidoK
- Lifer
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
Thats not the bushing we're talking about here....
And in that picture you're not using the tool you're referring to, and you're also using a cup from a bearing extractor set, which is not included.
Have you actually used that hydraulic knive puller (thats what it is) to replace the lower and upper outer rear suspension bushings?
So not something very very similar but the acutal part and setup we're talking about, with the tool you're linking to?
Darkangelv2 is way way better off buying a generic bushing extractor set like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Pr ... 2777137419
And even then he probably also needs large socket and/or some rings to use as a cup to get the bushings started as space is very tight, depending on how much you want to remove.
The set above works. I did my COMPLETE rear axle (yes I removed ALL 17 press fit bushings) in about 3,5 hours after I dropped the rear axle.
So extraction took about 15min per bushing. And I was taking it easy.
A hydraulic knive puller like that I use to remove bearings from inside the diff. If you think suspension bushings are stuck/tight, don't ever try to work on output bearings of the diff
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
- Jakg
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
Yes - I just don't have a picture to hand. I used an old socket as a mandrel.
- Liam22
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
Some photos of rear trailing arm outboard bush/joint removal with a sleeve kit: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112593&start=30
- GuidoK
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
^lol yes that is exactly the same setup I used too, with on one side the cup from the kit and on the other side a socket that fit. (on those outer joints)
And I also heated up the subframe a bit to get those bushings going (TIS recommended to burn out the bushings I believe but thats quite extreme, a light heat does the trick ). Indeed fitting the cups on that spot is tricky.
Here was my old bushing collection I didnt have to saw/cut the rubber of the trailing arm bushing, I just pressed it out.
I looked it up, I did this job in 2013, 6 years ago. Time flies...
I completely painted the rear suspension and bead blasted the aluminium parts to get rid of the corrosion:
As you can see I used the red strongflex ones for the subframe and the yellow ones for the suspension, so a shore80a and 90a mix (I use shore80A for all the monocoque contact points)
And I also heated up the subframe a bit to get those bushings going (TIS recommended to burn out the bushings I believe but thats quite extreme, a light heat does the trick ). Indeed fitting the cups on that spot is tricky.
Here was my old bushing collection I didnt have to saw/cut the rubber of the trailing arm bushing, I just pressed it out.
I looked it up, I did this job in 2013, 6 years ago. Time flies...
I completely painted the rear suspension and bead blasted the aluminium parts to get rid of the corrosion:
As you can see I used the red strongflex ones for the subframe and the yellow ones for the suspension, so a shore80a and 90a mix (I use shore80A for all the monocoque contact points)
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch
- Liam22
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Best bushes for rear wishbone-to-hub (outer bushes)
Beautiful work
I found some of your old posts which guided me on the right path
I found some of your old posts which guided me on the right path