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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

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tomrdy
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by tomrdy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:56 am

Hey guys half way into the VANOS job now and going good (5 hours so far which included 2 trips to the hardware store for driver bits).

I had trouble removing the piston caps as I couldn't fit my hex bit + driver - the hex bit actually only JUST fit.

I ended up being able to loosen it with a wrench on the bit, then hand turned it out without the bit in place.

Thinking ahead, I realised when I reassemble I'll have the same problem in reverse.
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So I went to the hardware store again to see if there was some sort of lower profile bit I could put on my driver but no luck :(

QUESTION:

How's everyone tackled this? My current option is to just tighten it finger-in-the-air with my spanner the same way I loosened it, though 50nm (37 ftb) seems pretty hefty to try and guess.

Alternatively, I'm thinking I could use a swivel socket - but I'm not sure if using that with a torque wrench advisable? I guess though it'd be better than nothing? Never mind a swivel socket I just remembered I hardly had space to put the hex bit!

Any advice much appreciated!
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by Matty_Z4 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:32 am

I would check your tourque spec again are you sure it’s ft/lbs and not inch /lbs I’m pretty sure the left handed screws are 8nm (hand tight) and the nuts to hold the casing on are 50nm

Step 16 has the tourque values.
https://www.x8r.co.uk/ebay_x8r/instruct ... -fix-p.pdf
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by tomrdy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:56 am

hey matty,

yep the left handed ones are 8nm so I plan on just hand tightening those.

The part i'm talking about on that pdf is the Vanos cylinder front bolts which is indeed 50nm.
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by ph001 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:07 am

I’m not sure anyone has ever attempted this as a diy on the forum, so well done you for giving it a go. If you could do a full guide with pics to help others it would have been awesome but maybe a little late?
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by tomrdy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:14 am

ph001 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:07 am I’m not sure anyone has ever attempted this as a diy on the forum, so well done you for giving it a go. If you could do a full guide with pics to help others it would have been awesome but maybe a little late?
Ah there's actually quite a few guys who have done it on the forums - it's where I've gathered all the info to do it. I'm definitely not a pioneer when it comes to this stuff!

If you're after guides, you should be able to find it on Search - though no one details my specific issue from this thread.

I assume most people just tighten it... Tight. I suppose it's not a load bearing or rotating part. Worst case it leaks a bit but not a huge pain to get to actually. Just the rocker to come off.
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by mjennings23 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:20 am

ph001 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:07 am I’m not sure anyone has ever attempted this as a diy on the forum, so well done you for giving it a go. If you could do a full guide with pics to help others it would have been awesome but maybe a little late?
If you're after a guide look up Besian Systems and their guide. It's what I used, everything is simply laid out and described albeit their vehicle is an E39 so a few small differences.

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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by mjennings23 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:22 am

tomrdy wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:14 am
ph001 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:07 am I’m not sure anyone has ever attempted this as a diy on the forum, so well done you for giving it a go. If you could do a full guide with pics to help others it would have been awesome but maybe a little late?
Ah there's actually quite a few guys who have done it on the forums - it's where I've gathered all the info to do it. I'm definitely not a pioneer when it comes to this stuff!

If you're after guides, you should be able to find it on Search - though no one details my specific issue from this thread.

I assume most people just tighten it... Tight. I suppose it's not a load bearing or rotating part. Worst case it leaks a bit but not a huge pain to get to actually. Just the rocker to come off.
It's been a couple of years since I did mine, but I'm fairly sure I used a long Allen key and then added a bar to get a bit more leverage. As you say they're only there to stop oil running out really, so it isn't particularly critical. I've had no traces of oil leaks etc in 2 years so it clearly worked okay!

Edit: actually, looking at it again it seems your Allen socket bit is longer than the ones I used. I had some old ones in the garage that were shorter so that gave just enough space to get the torque wrench in.

Are you not able to use an extension bar and position the wrench where the fan usually sits? I can't remember the layout exactly and whether or not the cross member blocks that idea.

Final option would be to chop the hex bit down? Perhaps get a cheap one you don't mind chopping up.

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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by tomrdy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:16 am

mjennings23 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:22 am Are you not able to use an extension bar and position the wrench where the fan usually sits? I can't remember the layout exactly and whether or not the cross member blocks that idea.
Yeh I wish that were the case but I'm having to leverage the bulk head already just to fit my socket in (without a driver. JUST the socket). It appears i have sockets made for GIANTS :headbang:

Cutting could be an option but not that keen on ruining my current bit set. Could probably find a shorter/cheaper set online but then the Z would be in limbo for a while!

At this point i think I've decided to do the "she'll-be-right" option of just doing it up reasonably :D Let's see how it goes.

Thanks for the input!
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by GuidoK » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:43 pm

I don't recall how I did this (it's like 6 or 7 years ago that I did my vanos).
To get it loose I probably used a normal 8mm hex L wrench (so a normal hex key) with a small pipe to get the leverage, and to tighten, I might have put a spring balance on that pipe to calculate the torque. (I think I only have a 1/4" hex socket and 50Nm is a bit much for that).

Using a simple spring balance for that is something that I do often. It's a 2quid tool or thereabout.
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by wyshyvanuk » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:39 pm

It may be possible to use a small "crow's foot" attachment on the torque wrench. The "crow's foot" would engage an Allen bit without the need for a socket. An adjustment would need to be made to the torque setting to account for the additional length of the lever.

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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by CRAIGO » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:54 pm

How did you determine your Vanos was bad in the first place?

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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by Deadpool » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:30 pm

Did mine over xmas. I used an allen key and stuck a pole on the end for a bit more leverage just gauged what felt ~50nm
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by GuidoK » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:39 pm

wyshyvanuk wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:39 pm It may be possible to use a small "crow's foot" attachment on the torque wrench. The "crow's foot" would engage an Allen bit without the need for a socket. An adjustment would need to be made to the torque setting to account for the additional length of the lever.
If you could find an 8mm crowfoot (not impossible, I have one in my set, but not all sets have them), you're not going to be able to put 50Nm on that. It will slip for sure (damaging the tool).

Lets first see how he gets the vanos off the studs in the block. The subframe in front usually limits that. :wink:
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by tomrdy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:22 pm

GuidoK wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:39 pm Lets first see how he gets the vanos off the studs in the block. The subframe in front usually limits that.
I was lucky - the unit has been out since yesterday (was the last thing I did before I ran out of time). Came out pretty easily with some prying 8)
CRAIGO wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:54 pm How did you determine your Vanos was bad in the first place?
I didn't have any major issues but only thing I noticed was some lumpiness on cold starts randomly and also pretty poor fuel economy. I also ran my C110 tool and looked at the live data feed - saw that the adaption angles sat completely still. Not 100% sure if this verifies a failing VANOS but after the service I'll be able to see if there's any difference in readings.

Thanks for the additional input guys. I'm going to follow suit and pick up some L allen keys instead of trying to grip the bit (it did slip a few times). Hopefully have the car back running today :D
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Need advice with VANOS reassembly (how to torque piston plug caps)

Post by GuidoK » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:27 pm

Buy some iron central heating pipe (the smallest diameter). That makes for an ideal levering tube for L keys.
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