Z4MC vs Z4C 3.0 ESS Supercharger - anyone driven both?

shuey · Post by **shuey** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:25 pm

Has anyone driven a Z4C with an ESS supercharger fitted? And if you have, have u driven a Z4MC as comparison?

What made you fit a supercharger instead of just buying an Z4M?
How do they compare in terms of performance, cost, reliability, issues?
Lastly if you did own a supercharged Z4C - or sold one - did you sell for lower or more than the going rate of similarly mileage Z4MC

I'm still a while off from doing this, but wondering if I should work towards just buying a Z4M or supercharge my existing 3.0?

I generally prefer keeping cars factory specced, but wondering whether supercharging could possibly be cheaper way, to achieve better performance than the M.

Machine monkey · Post by **Machine monkey** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:08 pm

Hummm
You will never sell a SC Z4c for more than an M.

The Z4m has better brakes suspension and a LSD. It also has proper hydraulic steering. If you want a better hand sling stopping and faster coupe buy the M.

If you want an individual car that you built. And picked what you changed modify your coupe. It can be faster handle better and stop better than an M. But it will cost a lot more and be worth a lot less trust me! I know!

Chris1981 · Post by **Chris1981** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:44 pm

Supercharge it

Something I always wanted to do but couldn't justify the cost!

But MM is spot on with the comparison, you can and should do more chassis mods if you did S/C it but it will never be a true M competitor without

Or... get an M and S/C that!

1000rr · Post by **1000rr** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:16 pm

There’s a fella by me, he has a z4m roadster which is supercharged..... best of both worlds.

philbo909 · Post by **philbo909** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:20 pm

shuey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:25 pm wondering whether supercharging could possibly be cheaper way, to achieve better performance than the M.

no way it would be cheaper after you upgrade everything to cope with the increased power, plus the resale would a)take longer b)only be worth what someone wants to pay for it

shuey · Post by **shuey** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:47 pm

actually never thought about the brakes, suspension and LSD... Yeh I'm usually one for going with what comes out the factory rather than me thinking I know what will make car better!

M it is then, the hunt starts in the new year!

Mr Tidy · Post by **Mr Tidy** » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:55 pm

Makes sense OP - you can easily spend thousands modifying a 3.0Si but when you come to sell you'll never get much of it back.

Good luck with the search for an M next year.

Hopefully your Coupe should generate some interest - Alpine White is rare on an E86.

paullyjay · Post by **paullyjay** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:18 am

Buy an M - it will hold it's price far better for re-sale, who knows, if you keep it for long enough it might turn out to be a good investment!

Zendo · Post by **Zendo** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:40 am

I'm looking at an ESS supercharger *cough* for my 3.0si. For me the decision is about my daily. Yeah sure I'd love to supercharge an M coupe and when I find one worthwhile I certainly will. I've been looking for a great 07-08 M coupe for over a year. I've been driving a 3.0si coupe for 2 years. I really love the car, it literally purrs and it can hold its own wide open. Maybe I'm lucky and got the special one, yet I've dusted many AMG's on the open road and my 3.0si is completely stock. I'm not joking.

So its not only about resale. And actually I'm kind of glad I've kept the SI because now I'm thinking I should just keep it as my daily and get an M coupe as my secondary. Either way, the miles get racked up on the SI commuting, so why not supercharge it?

gwatson · Post by **gwatson** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:14 am

I owned a Z4MR from 2013 to 2016 and an earlier E85 3.0i Supercharged by ESS 2005 to 2009.

To summarise, the Supercharged car was a lot faster, quite a bit more torque and grunt (although I think the E86 uses a different type of supercharger, not twin screw), but not the screaming top end.

Z4M had more character, both sounded fantastic, ///M better induction, ESS car better exhaust. Very little in it on the road brakes or handling wise.

ESS car was cheaper to run, but had a few niggles with it which required a few calls to ESS or code reading to determine faults.

At the time I supercharged mine in 2007, the difference in price between a 5 year old 3.0i and brand new ///M made the supercharged car a no brainer. I put the car back to standard to sell and didn’t lose that much overall for the pleasure.

Personally, the ///M didn’t live up to my expectations, other than the engine it was a little disappointing, just lacked something. I sold it and bought my old S2000 back, which was a lot more fun! Whereas the ESS car always brought a smile.

Ironically I now have a 30i E89 and would consider supercharging it one day, even though a mapped 35i would make a lot more financial sense. I just like something different.

Let me know if you have any questions.

LaserMark4 · Post by **LaserMark4** » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm

gwatson-- Sounds like you've had some great rides through the years!!

I just picked up an 2003 E85 3.0i from a near 70 year old original owner at 45K miles and don't think he ever took it above 5K RPM. So it's is in impeccable shape. And I am tracking with your same plus / minus thoughts on the M vs. E85 supercharged. And I have no intention of tracking running the vehicle or super hard.... just some great POWER here in my backyard of the Rocky Mts (we loose quite a bit of power in the higher elevations). It would also be a fun project--

In comparing the ESS TS1 vs TS2, is the inter-cooler of the TS2 critical and worth the extra $$? It seems the same Lysholm 1.6L Twin Screw supercharger unit in both the TS1 vs. TS2. Just curious.... did you sell your ESS Stage 2?

Interestingly, it appears from the website that ESS is no longer offering the twin Lysholm screw but has gone to a Vortech V3Si centrifugal unit- which to me is a downgrade for the low to mid power bands. The Whipple/screw effect seems to be a superior supercharger technology.

PS- My relatives all date back to Banff from the 1700's (Cameron). They came to the USA in late 1800's. Definitely on my bucket list to come see Aberdeenshire one of these days soon! It looks absolutely beautiful!

Piper1 · Post by **Piper1** » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:48 pm

LaserMark4 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm gwatson-- Sounds like you've had some great rides through the years!!

I just picked up an 2003 E85 3.0i from a near 70 year old original owner at 45K miles and don't think he ever took it above 5K RPM. So it's is in impeccable shape. And I am tracking with your same plus / minus thoughts on the M vs. E85 supercharged. And I have no intention of tracking running the vehicle or super hard.... just some great POWER here in my backyard of the Rocky Mts (we loose quite a bit of power in the higher elevations). It would also be a fun project--

In comparing the ESS TS1 vs TS2, is the inter-cooler of the TS2 critical and worth the extra $$? It seems the same Lysholm 1.6L Twin Screw supercharger unit in both the TS1 vs. TS2. Just curious.... did you sell your ESS Stage 2?

Interestingly, it appears from the website that ESS is no longer offering the twin Lysholm screw but has gone to a Vortech V3Si centrifugal unit- which to me is a downgrade for the low to mid power bands. The Whipple/screw effect seems to be a superior supercharger technology.

PS- My relatives all date back to Banff from the 1700's (Cameron). They came to the USA in late 1800's. Definitely on my bucket list to come see Aberdeenshire one of these days soon! It looks absolutely beautiful!

I just saw this too that you mentioned the TS series no longer on their site. Could give them a call to see what's changed as the entire website has been updated since I was looking last and if they'd still offer it. As far as the power band, consider changing your final drive ratio as I did if you're thinking about upgrading to a LSD, you can manipulate that curve a bit, if you have any questions on how the VT1 kit behaves with the diff change ask away

shuey · Post by **shuey** » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:41 pm

gwatson,

I hear ya - good comparison write up - which has got me thinking again.

If I do get the Z4MC - it'd defo be a daily driver - and thats the only thing I'm a little hesitant about - i.e. fuel cost/insurance (which I can live with - considering what it is), but primarily enjoying driving the car day to day, even when not going on run.

I've yet to test drive an MC, and this is prob my next step. If I buy an MC, it would probably something I keep a long time, but adding a SC to my coupe - I think I'll still be looking at M's.

I absolutely love my coupe, performance, handling composure and economy, I can't complain (but could always do with a bit more mid-end torque). And also reading the EVO magazine reviews - it's mad that they actually considered the 3.0si a better proposition over the M (5 stars vs 4.5 stars).

But and M will always be an M!

shuey · Post by **shuey** » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:46 pm

Zendo, totally agree in terms of on the road performance. was on a rally a few months back - GTRs, AMG mercs, Focus RS and M4s. They were all quite surprised how well the 3.0 kept up and pulled away.

Of course around a track day, I'd get wasted hands down - but on the road down a country lane, it can give way more powerful cars, a good run

LaserMark4 · Post by **LaserMark4** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:44 pm

shuey wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:41 pm gwatson,

I hear ya - good comparison write up - which has got me thinking again.

So gwatson, sorry for the delay in responding. Do you recall the make of your compressor that was installed and what year it was installed? I've read that quite a few changes to the tuning and designs have occurred these past 5 years or so.

Interestingly, I was looking at VF last week as one of the options I was researching and have been exchanging back and forth with the marketing/tech guys at their CA mfg plant. They are currently using the Vortech V3 Si-Trim now, which is a change and update from their past versions I believe. They do installs at the plant, with pre and post dyno, and full tune and adjustments for $1,500. But I have just a wonderful race mechanic here close to me so want to do the project locally.

The low-end power issues has been my greatest concern as well. This car has NEVER tracked and never will (1st owner was an old geezer like me). Will only be a street and mountain driver.

Last week VF marketing guys sent me a recent dyno chart with this message- "This was a REALLY fun car that just went out our shop, that also coincidentally was an Automatic (BMW E46 325i – M54B25). You can expect a very similar delta in your before/after dyno runs." It obviously has the 2.5L as opposed to the 3.0i and I haven't had a chance to call them back and discuss.

I was surprised how flat the increased levels of hp and torque were with the supercharger, but with a very nice increase across all spectrums of rpm for both.

Do you recall any dyno's you did on your C 3.0? I guess I am wondering if their tuning and new Vortech model has increased the lower and mid range hp/torque over your previous set ups? Thoughts?

Mark S.

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