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2003 - 2009, roadster, coupe, facelift
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MACK
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Post by MACK » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:49 am

eddiemunster wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:29 am
MACK wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:15 amMy point is you cant demonstrate that the worn seal was having a impact on the vehicle
You can't easily demonstrate that a worn turbo seal was having an impact either, but you can prove that the seal was worn and therefore it wasn't operating correctly.

I know you're only trying to help, but, I don't need advice on how the law works, that has been my job for the last 20 years: what I need is a rough estimate of the cost of replacing the vanos seals.

Regards
Well if your going to be blunt/rude so will I. First of all use the search function. That's what's it's there for. Every single question/post/thread you've asked in the few days youve been here has been asked before numerous times and you could have found that out if you'd only bothered to look. The vanos isn't a 1 day job, nothing like it but to be honest you can find that out for self now.

You do seem to think you have all the answers here and can be wrong but I still don't see how your evidencing an actual fault. All you've got so far is your perceived opinion based on a Internet diagnosis that there's a issue but you not established there is and even if you went ahead with replacing the vanos seals and presented them to the car supplier you still haven't demonstrated an actual failure, just some wear, the part could still be performing. But hey what do I know I've only got 25 years experience in this field
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Post by ph001 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:56 am

When people talk about VANOS seals, are they referring to the VANOS actuator solenoid seals or something else? The VANOS solenoids are a very simple DIY to remove and clean (with new seals)... https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84789

And pic here... http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1022260
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Post by eddiemunster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:00 am

MACK wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:49 amWell if your going to be blunt/rude so will I.
You're more angry that I haven't accepted your opinion on what constitutes wear and tear, or whether a dealer's at fault or indeed the due process in proving the same.

This thread doesn't need anymore replies like this, it doesn't do it any favours at all, and so hopefully a moderator will lock it.
Last edited by eddiemunster on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MACK » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:04 am

ph001 wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:56 am When people talk about VANOS seals, are they referring to the VANOS actuator solenoid seals or something else? The VANOS solenoids are a very simple DIY to remove and clean (with new seals)... https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84789

And pic here... http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1022260
It's a little confusing. It solely depends on the engine you have. The thread you linked to is for the later n series engines where the soloniods are easy to remove. In this thread the member who raised Vanos assumed the OP has a pre car as he described it as 3.0i. I don't actually think the OP confirmed this but on the early m series engines it's the actual Vanos pistons inside the Vanos unit that have their seals replaced. On these it requires the vanos to be removed and striped down which is much more involved.
Last edited by MACK on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by eddiemunster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:05 am

ph001 wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:56 amWhen people talk about VANOS seals, are they referring to the VANOS actuator solenoid seals or something else? The VANOS solenoids are a very simple DIY to remove and clean (with new seals)... https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84789
I did read this thanks, very informative, and in fact there's a good video on eBay from the manufacturer of the new seals to show how the unit comes apart and how the parts are replaced which I had a look at to.

The dealer wanted me to be as specific as I could, before he chose what he wanted to do, so the forum seemed like a good starting point in order to cross off the normal culprits, i.e. plugs, points, fuel pressure etc., etc.

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Post by mjennings23 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:10 am

It still depends on what engine you have OP. That link.is only relevant to the N52 engine fitted in the facelift from 2006 on. 2003-05 cars have the M54 engine which, as mentioned, requires the vanos unit to be physically removed from the engine.

Labour time, my suggestion of a day's work is a DIY job at home. I'd expect a competent indy to do it in 4 hours.

It took me about 6-7 hours on my driveway, having never attempted a job like it before and having to go buy some bent needle nose pliers half way through to get some awkward plastic cap off.

In terms of parts costs, you'd be looking at around £40 or so for vanos parts, and it would be prudent to change the valve cover gasket too as no doubt it will break when removing the cover, what with it being rubber that's been heat cycled many, many times. They're around £40 too.
Last edited by mjennings23 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MACK » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:13 am

eddiemunster wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:00 am
MACK wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:49 amWell if your going to be blunt/rude so will I.
You're more angry that I haven't accepted your opinion on what constitutes wear and tear, or whether a dealer's a fault or indeed the due process in proving the same.

This thread doesn't need anymore replies like this, it doesn't do it any favours at all, and so hopefully a moderator will lock it.
I think youll find it was you that was clearly annoyed that I wouldnt accept your opinion that dealer would just role over and fix a fault that you can't even show exists. The bit about the search function, well to be honest I'm suprised someone else hadn't already pointed that out to you.
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Post by eddiemunster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:17 am

MACK wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:13 amI think youll find it was you that was clearly annoyed that I wouldnt except your opinion that dealer would just role over and fix a fault that you can't even show exists.
It wasn't an opinion, he'd already accepted the fault before I posted.

Thanks for you help thus far.

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Post by MACK » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:18 am

eddiemunster wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:17 am
MACK wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:13 amI think youll find it was you that was clearly annoyed that I wouldnt except your opinion that dealer would just role over and fix a fault that you can't even show exists.
It wasn't an opinion, he'd already accepted the fault before I posted.

Thanks for you help thus far.
Of course he had😂 right I'm done with this BS.
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Post by Ducklakeview » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:30 am

Lol..

For the record, OP, the VANOS seals on pretty much any M54 engined car are toast by about 40k miles, if not sooner. The problem is BMW specified a material for them that just wasn't up to the job. How you are going to prove this to the dealer you bought the car from, and indeed get them to pay for it is a mystery to me.

Faulty seals DON'T throw up any error codes, nor do they normally result in rough running of any sort, you simply "loose" the mid range grunt that the motor had when new. Because even the newest M54 engined cars out there are getting on now, and most will not be with their original owners, drivers assume that this is "just what the engines are like" smooth, powerful, but needing to be revved to get the most from them, ie just like a "normal" non-turbocharged petrol engine.

However, get the job done and the difference will be instantly noticeable. My car pulls like a train throughout the rev range, not just at the top end.

And yes, I speak from experience regarding the seals, as I've replaced them on dozens of M54 engines, not just in Zeds.

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Post by ph001 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:39 am

Some good clarifications from DLV. So does the M54 not have the solenoids accessible on the outside like the N52?
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Post by MACK » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:56 am

ph001 wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:39 amSome good clarifications from DLV. So does the M54 not have the solenoids accessible on the outside like the N52?
It's the pistons and their seals on the m54 that causes the trouble not solenoids as with the later n52. Completely different setup and the m54 takes a while to disassemble to get to them. 3 hour job at an indie/specialist
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Post by Ducklakeview » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:58 am

ph001 wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:39 amSome good clarifications from DLV. So does the M54 not have the solenoids accessible on the outside like the N52?
Yes, it has solenoids that can be changed, however their failure rate is very low, so much so that I've not come across one. All the solenoids do is allow the oil into the vanos piston chambers, however when the seals in said chambers "don't" seal, then the oil simply passes them and drops back into the sump. One thing I've been meaning to do is to measure the oil pressure before and after a vanos seal job, as I'm convinced that if the solenoids are open and "calling" for camshaft advance, BUT the seals aren't containing the oil and therefore pressure within the vanos hubs, then I reckon this will have an adverse effect on oil pressure within the engine due to the failed seals effectively acting like two open taps in the oil supply system.

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Post by peteslag » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:05 pm

I had my Z3 3.0 re-mapped. The throttle response was marginally better but to be honest, it just isn't worth it on NA engines. I'll not be bothering with it on my Z4 3.0.

A very good friend of mine owns his own re-mapping company and offered to do mine for next to nothing, I'm still not bothering.

Due to the fact that I'm inherently lazy I'll not be bothering with the vanos seals either!

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Post by eddiemunster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:52 pm

Ducklakeview wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:58 amhowever when the seals in said chambers "don't" seal, then the oil simply passes them and drops back into the sump.
Is it a binary circuit as per VTEC, either on or off, or does the lack of seal prevent the process from completing only in part? Is the fact that it's occuring around 3k rpm simply because there's sufficient pressure to completely open the circuit?

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