Another whats it worth/what to do thread.

[Mr Whippy]

I'm currently thinking about selling my Z4... or maybe keeping it. I've had it almost 9 years to the day.

We now have a 1 year old toddler and although we replaced the wife's 3dr hot hatch with a sensible BMW F30 3er as the family car, I think it's also useful to have a 'backup' car that can at least carry my wife and I with the little one in the back.
Otherwise I rarely drive myself around, so it's 335D Xdrive chauffer duty which is ok, but not properly fun in any shape or form vs a Z4.

I've also fancied an E46 M3 for many years I thought it'd be a fun car to own and tinker with, while having back seats!

My Z4 is starting to cost a bit to keep nice (all the same stuff as a similar age/mileage E46), so I figured it'd be just putting more money down on an M3 and enjoying similar running costs and ownership/driving experience.

I did test drive an M3 CS and part of me felt a bit cold vs my Z4. I'm now wondering whether to sell the Z4 for an M3, or just keep the Z4 and spend some money on it.
I rarely use it now since we usually go places all together. It's main use will be my wife driving to work, about 30min each way on rural Dales roads two days a week... so less ideal in winter too, hence the thoughts about letting her take the xdrive 3er, and I have the M3 there so I can actually get somewhere with the little one if needed.



So right now my Z4 is as follows:

2004 BMW Z4 3.0 SE
Titanium Silver
Red Leather M Sport interior (LCI retrofit, airbag warning light present)
Owned 9 years since Jan 2009 @ 60,000 miles
Currently on 125,738 miles
MOT until 17th October 2018 (10 months)
2 previous owners

Heated mem seats
Wind deflector
Standard HiFi
18" Ellipsoid 107s
Steering wheel controls
Original chrome exhaust tips
Hardtop prep
Aux input retrofit
Cruise control retrofit
De-secondary cats (passed all MOTs with them fitted)
Stubby aerial (original present)
M sport gearstick (original present)


BMWSH as follows:
Oil Service, 14,632 miles, 01/08/2005, Cooper Cobham BMW
- 16,245 miles - 1yr 4mths
Inspection 1, 30,877 miles, 26/02/2007, Cooper Cobham BMW
- 29,108 miles - 1yr 9mths
Inspection 2, 59,985 miles, 05/12/2008, Cooper Cobham BMW
Oil Service, 66,429 miles, 29/07/2009, Selby TVR Sports & Classics (my interim service to satisfy a thrown-in warranty from dealer)
- 15,770 miles - 1yr 7mths
Oil Service, 75,755 miles, 15/06/2010, Sandal Wakefield BMW
- 15,807 miles - 1yr 5mths
Inspection 1, 91,562 miles, 11/11/2011, Sandal Wakefield BMW
- 18,763 miles - 2yrs 1mth
Oil Service, 110,325 miles, 20/12/2013, Sandal Wakefield BMW
- 15,413 miles - 4yrs 1mth
Inspection 2, -- OVER-DUE --

Other service items:
Brake fluid, 55,299 miles, 08/08/2008, Cooper Cobham BMW
Brake fluid, 75,755 miles, 15/06/2010, Sandal Wakefield BMW
Brake fluid, 110,059 miles, 10/2013, Independent garage while doing rear brake pipes

Air conditioning, 15/06/2010, Sandal Wakefield BMW

Rear differential and gearbox oil & new gearbox drain plug, 2016, Independent garage

2 x new keys and valet key bought new from BMW shortly after I took ownership of the car

2017:

• New front springs, bought from Suplex direct OE spec (invoice to find, ordered on phone and I fear I just got a box, again, but I did buy them, fitted with below items. Can dig out proof from somewhere if a buyer is adamant, but the car rides the right height and I've invoices for fitting them!)

• Front Bilstein B4 dampers (Z4VLB4 22-164568/575) from Demon Tweeks, £196 + fitting.

• New Bosch S5 096 battery (summer 2017 from ECP), £116. DIY.

• Front discs/pads (OE Textar pad and ATE discs from ECP), £105. DIY.

2016:

• Goodyear Eagle F1 Asym 3 225/40 - 255/35, £560 inc fitting (then another new front one a week later as one got a puncture!)

• Gearbox oil (Opie Oils Castrol Syntrans B 75W) £35.90 inc delivery + fitting.

• Differential oil (Opiel Oils Castrol Syntrax Longlife 75W-90) £41.46 inc delivery + fitting.

• Gearbox drain plug from BMW Harrogate Stratstone, £12 + fitting.

• Passenger window actuator (full kit, local trusted garage fitted it, I perfected the alignment), ordered from the chaps at Lincoln BMW, £150 ish (invoice to find) + fitting.

• New front lower control arms, MEYLE HD C813 from eBay seller tierod69, £195 + fitting.

2015:

• Rear brake discs, £137 inc fitting (includes labour for a broken rear spring, all part of issues in poor/weird handbrake performance diagnostic)

• New rear spring, one had snapped (again! last one in 2012), but I like OE, so bought matching Suplex (invoice to find, ordered on phone and I fear I just got a box?!)

2014:

• Rear discs/pads, for MOT, £75 inc fitting.

2013:

• BMW Oil service, Sandal BMW Wakefield on 20 Dec 2013 @ 110,325 miles.

• New engine aux belts from BMW, £51.34 + fitting.

• Brake fluid and new made up rear brake pipes (from underfloor to caliper flexi) for MOT, £164 (includes fitting belts above)

• Intake boot/pipe (one between MAF and manifold proper, had split a tiny bit, spotted while I was doing starter motor), £24.

• Starter motor, exchange item from GSF, have return part of invoice, but it was about £150.

• 5x engine spark plug coils, Bosch ones from GSF (one had failed, car running rough, RAC recovered car for wife, decided to buy all the ones GSF had and replace as many as I could, kept old good ones, will be sold with car, £96.75

• Front ARB drop-links, bought from BMW Sandal Wakefield, £65 (did DIY, made a specially cut back spanner to fit over ARB BJ chamfers so they don't spin, included in sale!)

2012:

• KDS alignment and new rear spring at BMW Sandal Wakefield, £243

2011:

• BMW INSP1, Sandal BMW Wakefield on 11 Nov 2011 @ 91,562 miles.

• Front and rear ARB bushes, bought from BMW (invoice in stack of random invoices) + fitting

2010:

• BMW Oil service, Sandal BMW Wakefield on 16 June 2010 @ 75,752 miles.

2009:

• New keys and valet key from BMW Sandal Wakefield, £126.

• Intermediate oil service I needed for the 12 months warranty the trader threw in for me, 66,429 miles, £89 2x4l Castrol fancy LL04 stuff + labour.

Other bits and bobs:

• Aux connection from BMW Sandal Wakefield

• New first aid kit

• M sport gear knob from BMW Sandal Wakefield (still have original)

• Stubby aerial (still have original)

• New filler cap from BMW Sandal Wakefield (rubber snapped)

• Cruise control retrofit from BMW Sandal Wakefield (invoice to find)

• New numberplates from Sandal BMW Wakefield, rather than the horrible ones from the trader that sold it to me.

• New DISA from BMW Sandal Wakefield in 2009/2010, probably have invoice in my pile, but there is a thread on here about it any way)

As the eagle eye'd will have seen, the time based interval for the due inspection 2 has run over 2 years!

My wife and I have had a roller coaster 3 years with a lot going on, so I can only put it down to "next month'ing" and there has always been something much more important to deal with... and given all the things going on and the time-warp it creates, I honestly thought it was maybe 6 months over until a week ago when I dug everything out and realised! Yikes!

I'm so annoyed I missed it to be honest as it'd have been a nice FBMWSH with an OIL due right now, rather than INSP2 over-due.



This is my very honest to do list, what I 'want' to do, but maybe not what I'll do based on what people think.

My to-do list as it stands today:

• INSP 2 at BMW due in 150 miles (or minus 2 years! oops!) (Sandal Wakefield are really good, and they genuinely do decent thorough checks on INSP1/2 which are useful, then you do the work elsewhere haha!)

• Cam cover gasket to DIY (because it's easy ish, and it's been getting worse over the last few years, to the point it can smell a bit sometimes when warming up for the first time after a long stand)

• Oil filter housing gasket (There are signs of a leak here, but I only looked because it's a common leaky point apparently)

• Coolant (BMW don't do it on INSP2, but surely it must need doing? The stuff still looks bright blue, clear and fine though)

• Recondition wheels (again, they're now almost 9yrs since reconditioned, and they're the first thing you spot as not 100% as you approach the car) Also a few tyres go down very very slowly, just old rubber on the backs of the beads and poor seals/low mileage usage, sadly the 'well regarded' tyre fitters didn't clean the beads up or put a bead sealer on, so recondition seemed the best fix/£ ratio

• Tracking again, maybe after a few last front suspension related bits are replaced, it's had a lot of everything else recently so due a good check up (KDS at BMW)

• Sort that occupancy sensor/airbag light once and for all! I'd priced parts up from Lincoln BMW at about £180 for new mk1 mat and sensor, then a seat out and leather off job, then sell on the mk2 occupancy sensor to recoup some of the money. Oooor, just buy a box from eBay for £30, then reset the codes from INPA. Or maybe people know how to code it now?

• Localised spray/new panels. The rear wing tops which I had done under warranty are feint bubbling again, and feint bubbling on all arches just starting, almost none on nearside front, worst on offside front

• Full respray. As time has passed the scope has grown, but I thought £2,500 or so to have the car looking mint up top for the next 15 years (now it can be garaged and kept nice) is a bargain!

I'd been offered £1,750 trade in.

I'd prefer it to go to a person who wants a project for £1,750. But I also think it's worth more like £2,500 as it is, maybe £3,000 if I do a bunch of jobs on it.

I think I could break the car for more than the trade in value given.

I can't see it being worth making it 'mint' if I'm going to sell it as I'll just waste time and at best just recoup what I put into it.

Given you can buy a 3.0Si which is arguably better in every way (sans rear lights and front bumper imo ) a 3.0i can't get too expensive.


Ooor I just keep it and throw £1,500 at it and make it nice, use a good specialist independent and screw the BMSH now I've got a big gap in it?

I'd just like honest opinions because I'm a bit at a loss. Even if I don't keep it, should I do it up, by how much? Or sell it as a project to someone who'll genuinely get it right and keep it (which is what I want, rather than seeing it being scrapped a few years down the line)



I think I'm going to go drive a manual M3 to see how I feel about them again, it might help me make up my mind. Maybe the missing element was a manual clutch and a gearstick!
But I also still can't help but think a Z4 is a pointless car if I'll never get much opportunity to drive it and my wife just uses it for commuting on salty wintery (for now) roads.

I've also considered a 330Ci but from what I gather this will be too far the other way (softer and heavier and slower) vs the Z4...

I've had a look for a B3 3.4 Alpina but they're all convertibles which would be cool, but I don't think they're ideal for kiddie seats in the back.

A Coupe would be nice but I assume they come up hardly ever.

[Monkeydonkeyratmagic]

Any e46 M3 you get will require huge chunks thrown and tipped into it anyway. I also found them quite boring unless doing license losing stuff. Personally I'd keep it but I'd also happily take the car off you for 2.5k. Seems like a pretty honest summary vs half the horror out there

[kis]

That's a very comprehensive first post! And lots of detail re servicing and dates, I think I need to keep such a log

I used to have a e46 before, albeit only a 2litre. It was nice to drive, smooth and had plenty of boot space. Occasionally the rear seats were used... altogether a more practical car. But I don't think I ever did anything with it, got the occasional wash maintenance and other bits and bobs. But I never really loved it. The Zed is a car I do love. I enjoy tinkering and I enjoy driving.

Would it be out of the question to keep it and buy another (to quote you) 'chauffer duty' car? I feel like you'll not get the same driving experience in the e46 (or plenty of other cars) compared to the e85. Lots of people run the Zed as a weekend type car? I guess test drive a few more M's and see how you really feel about them. Good luck fella

[Buckz]

m3 will cost more they're older and never have been as reliable as zeds. And you've got the s54 to take care of..

[MACK]

If your being offered less than two grand for me it just simply wouldn't be worth selling. Even if I didn't use it for a while. I have used my zed much in the last 12 months but I knew selling would be a mistake. I honestly think you'd regret it down the line and if you wanted to come back to a zed you'd be ploughing a lot more than this to land a good one and get it to a standard you'd like judging from the above. About 8 years ago we fell it this trap of parting with a two seater for more seats as my wife wanted to be sure we could cart our nieces and nephews around in every vehicle we owned. Suffice to say the back seat of the four seat vert we bought got used all of two or three times in four years and we could have worked around even those.

[Beedub]

If your being offered less than two grand for me it just simply wouldn't be worth selling. Even if I didn't use it for a while. I have used my zed much in the last 12 months but I knew selling would be a mistake. I honestly think you'd regret it down the line and if you wanted to come back to a zed you'd be ploughing a lot more than this to land a good one and get it to a standard you'd like judging from the above. About 8 years ago we fell it this trap of parting with a two seater for more seats as my wife wanted to be sure we could cart our nieces and nephews around in every vehicle we owned. Suffice to say the back seat of the four seat vert we bought got used all of two or three times in four years and we could have worked around even those.

Totally agree, you may as well cover it upon sorn it, stick it in storage or in the garage if you have one and forget about it, once day you'll get it out and be glad you kept it!

[ph001]

Well I currently have both, so can give you good feedback. I guarantee that the E46 M3 will never feel boring with that engine and the suspension and ride is A LOT better than the Z4. The stability of the M3 is in another league. Saying that, I still feel like the Z4 is more of an 'event' to drive being so low and of course with the open air theatre that goes with it.

My M3 has been amazingly reliable in my last 10 yrs of ownership but then it has been extremely well cared for. It's is very low miles for it's age (just coming up 52k) so I have it in storage in my garage where it's pretty quickly appreciating in value. I warm the fluids through every 2 weeks to keep the oilways lubricated etc.

I am looking to sell in the very near future.

171.jpg (204.05 KiB) Viewed 1348 times

169.jpg (202.01 KiB) Viewed 1348 times

[Mike6]

I read in Classic Motors magazine last month that Z4s were the sports car that is most likely to become classic status over and above Audi TT and Porsche Boxster and the recommendation was to grab one before prices started to rise. I appreciate that it is all subjective and that they will have been talking about showroom examples on low mileage but it may be sensible to SORN it and keep it.

[GAZA62]

As above for that amount on a PX store the car if you can or use her as a summer driver I have had the same thoughts if I choose to move on I have had my Z for 10 years now but will not sell for such a low amount same year as yours but very low mileage and clean example the fellas who did the MOT yesterday were remarking on the condition of the car saying they don't see many like mine and to hang on to the car .

[Angelus666]

Depends, if you've fallen out of love for the Z4 then let it go, unless you have a huge garage there is really no point keeping it on the view that it'll rise in value....because, it's more likely that it won't.

The E46 M3 is a great car, but it'll cost you £15k to get a nice one now....and as such almost two totally different options.

[Mr Tidy]

It really depends - if you still enjoy your Z4 you aren't going to lose any money on it by keeping it, even if you do only get to use it a few times a year. (But I can't see them going up to be fair).

I personally wouldn't be put of by a missed Insp2 so long as the service was done, and surely any 3.0i with the history yours has must be worth at least £2K?

I doubt a 330i would feel special after a Z4. It isn't quite the same, but I've had an E46 325ti Sport for 3 years and while it's a great car it doesn't feel anything like as special as my Z4.

If you need to scratch an M3 itch then that might be the way forward, but you might not find it too easy getting kiddy seats in and out! (My nephew became a dad in 2016 and swapped his 325 Compact for a 325 Touring for that reason).

Just a thought, but what about an early E9* 330i with the N52 engine? It's a bit more exciting than an M54 but isn't subject to "M-tax"!

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

[Mr Whippy]

Wow thanks for the comments everyone.

It's helpful to hear what others would do.

I still love the Z4. Maybe it can stay a bit longer, I'll just have to find reasons to drive it alone I suppose.
That's the main issue. As soon as baby came along it went from used often to very rarely.
My wife can do a few days of commuting in it, but I have no reason to use it as I work from home.
If I'm at home with baby I can't go out in Z, if we're all at home and are free to do something we all go out.
The Z use case is more my wife using it. She likes it but maybe better to be keeping an old M3 vs an old Z4?


Storing is an option because it becomes near zero cost.
Dehumidifier in a cargo container? Is that pretty much it? Sub 40% RH and 5degC+

I maybe have space to do that (brothers farm), and give it a gentle run every month or two on the farm track, warm it through a bit.


Given it's value maybe storage is an idea then.
It won't lose value but could easily gain a bit.
Then use savings to fill the gap for an M3 purchase... if I still want one.



Agree totally on the Z4 event. It's basically not a normal car.
Even an M3 is a normal car, just a sporty one.
But the Z is a proper sports car.


This is why it's so tough to decide.

Z4 I'd rarely use but is a great event.

M3 I'd use much more often and is fun to drive, but it's not an event.

[Mr Tidy]

Z4 I'd rarely use but is a great event.

M3 I'd use much more often and is fun to drive, but it's not an event.

That seems to sum it up pretty well! (And more frequent use of an M3 is going to cost loads more than limited use of a Z4, if that matters).

[Chris_D]

Had an m3 project car and then wrote it off at the ring. I often thought it was just a money-pit the amount i spent to get it to track-ready state but the final insult was having to shell out for 10 metres of replaced armco, clean up, recovery and temporary track closure! Was fun while it lasted.

Bought the zed as another project car and the experience has been utterly rewarding both as a project to get it into fine fettle and as a driving prospect.

Your zed has similar issues to mine when i bought it. I dont have paint problems...yet...but the rest u can diy easily.
Keep it is my advice.

[Beedub]

how about buying a mega leggy z4m and having the best of both worlds and buy something you KNOW will need tinkering with, its such a nice car to work on and your not going to loose a penny!