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Panel Replaced and Repainted- Should I be bothered?

Discussion of other cars non-Z4
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mgrlane
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Panel Replaced and Repainted- Should I be bothered?

Post by mgrlane » Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:30 pm

Pondrew wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:02 pm
mr.tourette wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:45 pm Just because Mercedes
I've no real world experience of M cars but what I do know is every Merc I've ever sat in just feels more premium than any equivalent bmw model.. I know that M car fan's will probably say that's bollocks but it is just my opinion that Merc make better cars than BMW.. I'd take the c63 over an m3 every day of the week and twice on a Sunday
If it was 1993 I'd agree. Not anymore, my friend. Mercs are not built to the high standard they used to be.

As a driver's car, a Mercedes salesman summed it up for me a few years ago. He said a BMW will say to you "come on come on hurry up where we going come on", whereas a Mercedes will say "just one moment sir, I will be with you presently".

He had a point. Mercedes have never challenged BM's marketing as "the ultimate driving machine" have they?
It's interesting as Chris Harris said that he has ran that generation against each other all the time and the BMW won by a hairs length. He said at the end of one of the tests that he did that if the Merc he tested had an LSD in it- they were a 3k option that alot of people didn't spec for some reason then he would have given it to C63.

I just love cars me. I am not badge dependant. I wish I could drive them both back to back but my experience of the e92 is of a passenger and it was a fun car but as a passenger in the Merc I just knew I had to have one.

I think the BMW perhaps you have to drive it like you stole it and the Merc will entertain you at half throttle threading tires with minimal effort.

I think standard the M might be a faster point to point car? No idea on that but add a cheap and easy 50-70bhp onto the Merc then I am sue with a LSD and the breaks it would give the BMW a run for its money.

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Post by Pondrew » Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:09 am

Mr mgrlane,
I'm not going to quote your very in-depth and interesting replies. I think we have a lot in common regarding cars which is why to me it is so interesting. All the points you raised when coming to the conclusion of buying the c63 are the reasons why I can't decide on what car to buy. Admittedly my purchase is not for transport; just for fun. I was set on buying either a 997 s2 or a 981s Porsche until I realised we would only have a Skoda as family transport 365 (cos both these are 2 seaters and so is the Z4), which seemed ridiculous.

I too have discounted the Audreys, they are powerful, yes. Beautifully built, yes. Driver's cars, NO.

I'm sorry but I still want to buy a car that I can drool over, as much as want to drive. I can't do that with a Mercedes. The noise is a big plus (but exhaust technology has come a bl00dy long way in a few years. Hell there is 2004 pile of sh*t Astra 5 door keeps driving past my house that sounds like a 21 gun salute). I really want to shoot that little f*cker.
I know it is subjective, as Mr Tourette alluded to, he just has a thing about Mercs. Fair play.

I have also got the finances in the front of my head; I will buy any of these cars cash and am planning on keeping a while. I would like to keep money loss to a minimum (I know any of them is going to lose money but would like to stem the flow a bit).

It's still got to be the M cars. If we were in a different time, I would have looked at them all and test drove hundreds but sadly we are not.
All good things come to those who wait. I'm really impatient which explains a lot.

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Post by mgrlane » Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:27 am

I get what you are saying I don't look at the C63 the same way I look at my Z4 coupe. If it's looks then I don't think I would look at a M3 the same way I look at my Z too.

I could be very wrong but I don't think that both the M3 or the C63 are going to drop much more? Not the good examples what do you think?

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Post by mr.tourette » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:12 am

Pondrew wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:02 pm
mr.tourette wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:45 pm Just because Mercedes
I've no real world experience of M cars but what I do know is every Merc I've ever sat in just feels more premium than any equivalent bmw model.. I know that M car fan's will probably say that's bollocks but it is just my opinion that Merc make better cars than BMW.. I'd take the c63 over an m3 every day of the week and twice on a Sunday
If it was 1993 I'd agree. Not anymore, my friend. Mercs are not built to the high standard they used to be.

As a driver's car, a Mercedes salesman summed it up for me a few years ago. He said a BMW will say to you "come on come on hurry up where we going come on", whereas a Mercedes will say "just one moment sir, I will be with you presently".

He had a point. Mercedes have never challenged BM's marketing as "the ultimate driving machine" have they?
This is the point I'm making about opinions.. I love my z4 but its the only bmw I'll ever own, there will be a few more mercs in my ownership before I pop my clogs. Maybe it's an age thing, 20 years ago you wouldn't have got me out of Japanese cars :D
I just think Merc as a brand and car builder make a better car and I'll take my real world experience of cars to form my own opinion over salesman patter and marketing bollocks any day. :) All that said my opinion is formed less about performance and more around perceived build quality, brand kudos and luxury car feel, if i really wanted an all out track/weekend toy car I'd probably be looking to a porker
if its got tits or tyres..its trouble :D

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Post by mgrlane » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:55 am

I have been thinking about it this morning and I think perhaps:

The C63 to a M3 is similar to perhaps what a e86m is to a same era Cayman?

Having only been a passenger in two and driven 1 it's hard to form an opinion when a lot of it is based on what other people say.

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Post by pvr » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:17 am

I would look twice at a C63, not so much at an M3 though. And when you start the engine it is a whole different game again.

My X5M is about the same performance as my 911, but you can't beat that startup sound at a petrol station when the roof of the building is shaking 8) and you won't get that with an M3. It will be a similar case for the c63 as that engine sound is something else.

What would scare me with the c63 is the running costs and depreciation level, probably going hand in hand on why the depreciation is so high. The same applies to the Audi RS6 though.


Having said that, nothing can be as bad as a Land Rover Discovery I had which was my most expensive car - ever.
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Post by mgrlane » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:49 am

pvr wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:17 am I would look twice at a C63, not so much at an M3 though. And when you start the engine it is a whole different game again.

My X5M is about the same performance as my 911, but you can't beat that startup sound at a petrol station when the roof of the building is shaking 8) and you won't get that with an M3. It will be a similar case for the c63 as that engine sound is something else.

What would scare me with the c63 is the running costs and depreciation level, probably going hand in hand on why the depreciation is so high. The same applies to the Audi RS6 though.


Having said that, nothing can be as bad as a Land Rover Discovery I had which was my most expensive car - ever.
Chap next door has a X5 (I think it's a 4.4 V8?). 4x4 are not for me but I do like to be outside for the smell and the sound when he starts it up.

Not to sure he feels the same way about an AMG cold start- I don't think I will ask.

From what I see with the AMG the facelift 2012 to 2014 seem to be holding their value. I think they were 60ish new and 9 years later I paid 24k for one with all the extra's with 50k miles on it, full MBSH. The prefacelift care is no where near as desirable (same engine but different interior and gearbox).

I assume the M3 was around the same new and the same saloon car is worth around the same?

I keep telling myself it's the last of the real V8's and it's at or near it's bounce point (makes me feel better). I think the BMW might appreciate quicker (because M).

If you look you can pick up a non turbo with the right extras and less mileage for around 30k which is more than you can buy the newer turbo model:

VS

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search ... e-size=4.0

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Post by Pondrew » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:25 pm

This is very interesting; as what is coming over here is people's "pre-conceived ideas" about car brands. We all have them I suppose, based on information we choose, or chose to take into account a long time ago. I am 53, when I was young and obsessed with cars, Mercs were seen by me to be expensive "managing director's" cars, or rich old men's cars. BMW to me was a premium brand but more "performance" orientated. I don't know where these conclusions came from but they do tend to stick with you and are hard to shake off.

This discussion, for me, isn't a "which is better, AMG or M", as each has their own opinion and I can see the attraction of the C63, if for no other reason than the noise, as we all want to be noticed really don't we? :D I too really want a V8; I've even looked at the Mustang GT!

As for justifying a purchase like this on predicted depreciation (which I am also doing so not criticising), without hindsight we will not know. If I was buying a car with minimal depreciation foremost, I would buy another house instead. :)
All good things come to those who wait. I'm really impatient which explains a lot.

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Post by pvr » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:35 pm

Pondrew, you are very right there. I have always been told by my wife that I was not "allowed" a Merc as that was an old man's car :D

I really like the look of an Alfa but reputation dictates that I could not have it, but not based on personal experience. Personal experience does however mean I would never buy any British car again due to the poor quality.
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Post by inkey$ » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:55 pm

Age and preconceived ideas (based on experience or not) is an interesting concept.

As a 48 year old Gen-X I grew up on a diet of Knight Rider and Cannonball Run. Posters of 80s supercars on my wall as a kid and as a teenager influenced by my mates and the cars they were buying - predominantly old VWs. Lusted after an 80's Scirocco of years, never owned one. Instead the early years of driving were budget related - Fiat Uno, Renault Clio, Nissan 100NX - until reaching an age with some disposable income and recommended BMW by a friend that had owned an old 5 series.

I tried looking at Mercs over the years. For me rightly or wrongly they always felt like an older persons car - bit like a Jag. I occasionally look at AMG's and always take a second look when one goes past me in the street. Maintaining my never-owned-one-cliches, Audi's look nice but have a bad driver reputation and Alfa's are pretty and apparently real drivers cars, but unreliable.

Now on my tenth BMW since that recommendation and the brand influence has also affected our family car via Mini. It's a circle difficult to step out of since my driving experience to date has been somewhat shaped by the vehicles around me. I love the engines, the familiarity of the switchgear, the foibles and my increasing knowledge across the decades, from E30 onwards.

Id like to at least try a newer Merc one day though. Am sure it would help break the circle!
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Post by Argyll Andy » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:28 pm

mgrlane wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:30 pm told by my wife that I was not "allowed" a Merc as that was an old man's car
My OH says the same about Merc’s and particularly Jag’s even though I like both. She’s particularly sore about the Jag!

I also ty to point out that at 52 we’re getting there :rofl:
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    Post by pvr » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:31 pm

    inkey$ wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:55 pm

    Id like to at least try a newer Merc one day though. Am sure it would help break the circle!
    Absolutely not - as you would confirm the circle as you will be an old git by then :lol:
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    Post by Pondrew » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:34 pm

    pvr wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:35 pm I really like the look of an Alfa but reputation dictates that I could not have it, but not based on personal experience. Personal experience does however mean I would never buy any British car again due to the poor quality.
    Again it's a lot of pre-conceived ideas. I would love an Alfa (and was always told you can't be a car enthusiast until you've had one) but will never have one because of the bad reputation. I will never buy a Jag as I have a pre-conceived idea that they are unreliable and poorly built (and again an "old man's" car). I will never buy any Range Rover for the above reasons and massively over-priced too.

    I too had posters of cars (then later motorbikes) all over my bedroom wall as a kid. My favourites as a kid were the Ferrari 512 berlinetta boxer and Daytona. It turns out the 512 was one of Ferrari's poorer attempts, but I wasn't assessing it in real terms so it is still up there for purely nostalgic reasons.
    All good things come to those who wait. I'm really impatient which explains a lot.

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    Post by mgrlane » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:37 pm

    Yea I would say a Merc is a rich old man's car just based on the fact that it was only rich old men that I saw drive them in my youth.

    Never really thought I wan't a merc before. I guess AMG perhaps is a little different?

    I would defiantly pick a medium hot 3 series over the equivalent C class.

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    Post by ronk » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:41 pm

    Once bitten by a poor quality car purchase it’s very difficult to forgive and forget- I once bought a Ford Fiesta Supersport way back in 1982 - £4911

    It was a bag of spanners and the last Ford I will ever buy!
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    So I bought a 35is with all the toys to play with. :thumbsup:

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