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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by neo_24860 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:51 am

Hi,

I'm undecided on getting a Z4 coupe or a Porsche Cayman (either 2.7 or 3.4 S).

I've had a few Z4's but never a 3lt and always wanted a Coupe, but the Cayman has really got my interest, I've read up on them and some problems they may have, just wondering if anyone has owned one and what they are like? I would be looking at a 2005/2006/7 model, the thought of a 3.4 S is very appealing but I'm trying to weigh up which would be best.

Thanks :)
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by mr wilks » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:15 am

neo_24860 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:51 am Hi,

I'm undecided on getting a Z4 coupe or a Porsche Cayman (either 2.7 or 3.2 S).

I've had a few Z4's but never a 3lt and always wanted a Coupe, but the Cayman has really got my interest, I've read up on them and some problems they may have, just wondering if anyone has owned one and what they are like? I would be looking at a 2005/2006/7 model, the thought of a 3.2 S is very appealing but I'm trying to weigh up which would be best.

Thanks :)
Wouldn't it be a 3.4s not 3.2s :? anyhow the 2.7 / 2.9 probably more a like for like comparison in performance terms , the 3.4s being more ZMC territory in price / running costs / performance .
Darren Slone very recently went from ZMC to 3.4 Cayman , i'm sure he can add something to your dilemma :thumbsup:
Last edited by mr wilks on Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by neo_24860 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:17 am

mr wilks wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:15 am
neo_24860 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:51 am Hi,

I'm undecided on getting a Z4 coupe or a Porsche Cayman (either 2.7 or 3.2 S).

I've had a few Z4's but never a 3lt and always wanted a Coupe, but the Cayman has really got my interest, I've read up on them and some problems they may have, just wondering if anyone has owned one and what they are like? I would be looking at a 2005/2006/7 model, the thought of a 3.2 S is very appealing but I'm trying to weigh up which would be best.

Thanks :)
Wouldn't it be a 3.4s not 3.2s :? anyhow the 2.7 probably more a like for like comparison in performance terms , the 3.4s being more ZMC territory in price / running costs / performance .
Darren Slone very recently went from ZMC to 3.4 Cayman , i'm sure he can add something to your dilemma :thumbsup:
haha sorry Andy, I did this shortly after my very cold run, yes the 3.4 version!

Thanks mate, still undecided, although there is a nice Z4 coupe up for sale near me which I'm trying to find out some info on.

Thanks again
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by mr wilks » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:22 am

neo_24860 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:17 am
mr wilks wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:15 am
neo_24860 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:51 am Hi,

I'm undecided on getting a Z4 coupe or a Porsche Cayman (either 2.7 or 3.2 S).

I've had a few Z4's but never a 3lt and always wanted a Coupe, but the Cayman has really got my interest, I've read up on them and some problems they may have, just wondering if anyone has owned one and what they are like? I would be looking at a 2005/2006/7 model, the thought of a 3.2 S is very appealing but I'm trying to weigh up which would be best.

Thanks :)
Wouldn't it be a 3.4s not 3.2s :? anyhow the 2.7 probably more a like for like comparison in performance terms , the 3.4s being more ZMC territory in price / running costs / performance .
Darren Slone very recently went from ZMC to 3.4 Cayman , i'm sure he can add something to your dilemma :thumbsup:
haha sorry Andy, I did this shortly after my very cold run, yes the 3.4 version!

Thanks mate, still undecided, although there is a nice Z4 coupe up for sale near me which I'm trying to find out some info on.

Thanks again
Its a tough choice for sure , the Si ZC must appeal in terms of purchase costs , running costs & zero sleepless nights :oops: the Cayman has the edge in terms of kudos , handling etc but Porsche ownership is a different prospect , ive been there 3 times ( 964 , 996 , 997 ) absolute delight to own + drive but no matter how confident i was in the cars Porsche paranoia is hard to ignore & you always wonder how far away you are from a unexpected bill :cry:
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by IRD » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:41 am

I had a very low mileage 2007 2.7 Cayman. It was a pleasure to drive although mine was a bit short on the extras and I loved the look of it. But Andy sums it up when talking of ‘Porsche paranoia’. I always had an uneasy feeling there would be a big bill around the corner and it did really spoil the ownership experience. :|

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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by neo_24860 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:11 pm

I must admit that's what I'm worried about, plus the stories of IMS bearing and liners etc, it would be a cool car to own but will that nag of 'what if' goes and those bills pile up....
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by kinger » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:32 pm

+1 for the Porsche Paranoia...
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by Pastry » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:19 pm

I would rather drive the 987 but ownership....the BMW. Although IMS and scoring happen to a relatively low number of cars, it happens so one more for Porsche paranoia :?
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by neo_24860 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:35 pm

Thanks guys for the advice, I thought this might be the case!

So I'm off to look at a 3lt convertible with only 35k miles over the weekend :evil:
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by greg81 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:53 pm

Z4 coupe is a FAR better looking car than a 987 Cayman imo

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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by scootr » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:56 pm

The failure numbers are low but when/if it happens it's real :cry:
So I would spend a little more and get the DI engine with no intermediate shaft or bearing to worry about.
Then get a warranty. Let it warm up and drive the bloody hell out of it :rofl:
My 987.2 S is truly a drivers car. It gives loads of feedback that immerses the driver in the activity. :driving:
I read plenty of support about the base model being tons of fun to thrash about without going to jail compared to some of the faster cars. Others say they always wished they had a bit more power. Either way you go the midengine Porsche is a different driving experience than the BMW, The Z4 is more of a grand touring sports car vs a race track capable platform.
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by tomscott » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:11 pm

I’m a self confessed BMW and Porsche nut and although I have a 996 C4S that I bought with my dad as a project with not far off 80k. My 987 Boxster S had bore score... and was a pretty bad experience.

My 996 I bought it from a reputable dealer (strasse Leeds) and have had a very good relationship with them for 10 odd years and has looked after all mine and dads porsches so felt much more confident as it had a PPI and lots of work done.

I sold my Z4M coupe to go travelling and then bought a 2005 3.2 boxster S about 2 years later to get back into a sports car. I always wanted a 996 C4S but at the time I couldn't afford one and my thinking was... in terms of paranoir as the 2.7 and 3.2 have the smallest chance having issues as they are the smallest bore. (Plus they are cheap...)

It was lovely full spec, extended leather, Chrono, Bose, 72k full Porsche service history had it 2 weeks did 1000 miles and it started knocking, took it to strasse hoping it was nothing serious as they can get sticky tappets which does sound very similar and the noise comes from the drivers side air vent if there is an issue. After an inspection they found the RMS was leaking, the IMS you might as well do at the same time. The gear shift wasn't quite right and sometimes if the RMS has been leaking for a while it can get to through to the clutch friction plate making it slip so clutch was a gonner to... at that mileage and because everything needed to come out might as well do the flywheel. Put the borescope down and was found to have bore score and the bits I knew about... ac rads needed doing (they only really last 6 years if your lucky with the way they are set up as a stone can puncture them) needed disks and pads all round they often look fine but corrode on the inside, the rear light had a crack and a couple of other odds and sods like the air vents are renowned for breaking and 2 were broken same with the fan and temp control buttons and you would be amazed at the cost to repair 😭

Cost to repair was quoted as £11500 and I paid £11750. After some really good advice I thankfully I managed to get my money back due to UK consumer law with the car not being fit for purpose. Drove it from Manc to Leeds then had to limp it to Birmingham to hand back. Big lesson learned GET A PPI before you buy all this stuff you can't see and it won't rear its head until its too late.

Something to bare in mine while looking you will find cars with similar mileages and years with quite varying prices, they are reliable cars but like any old sports car once the bits start adding up you can be in the whole quickly. Just disks pads, service and say the AC rads and hoses could rack up a 3-4K bill when the cars aren't that expensive. This is the reason, there were loads made and many didn’t look after them like they needed too. The 986/7 generation shared 90% of the parts with their bigger brother so are similar money to look after yet if you go on any 911 forum they are so anal about servicing etc but 987s weren't seen in the same regard by many owners. Especially once they got down to 10-15k service history can be a bit all over the place.

Again the Z4 3.0 and the Z4M are in completely different brackets in terms of cost of ownership. The 3.0 offers probably 85% the car for 50% ownership cost so can't really be directly compared.

The 2.7 and 3.4 987s aren’t, as I said they have 90% the components of a 911 and the engines are all similar units just with a bigger bore. So pricing to look after is similar.

On the other hand in the last 10 years we’ve had 996 997 and a 991 and tbh its cost me more to service and look after the Z4M from my experience. Thats not to say if anything did happen it wouldn't be a lot but having a good relationship with an independent is worth its weight in gold.

The biggest bill on the 997.1 was the radiator hoses and AC condensers as the sub frame need to come out but even so think that was £1200. Servicing is a little cheaper than the M generally but as these cars were 80-100k the parts can be expensive, but with the 996 sourcing fabulous second hand parts isn't difficult these days. They haven’t been crazy money to look after outside service schedule.

The 996 4S had everything done before I bought it by the previous owner and I've mainly done cosmetic bits. Everything including tyres, servicing and issues including IMS, RMS, clutch, flywheel, radiators, hoses, MOTs etc the paper work adds up to about 15k over the 16 year life. About £1000 a year which isn’t horrendous but it has had lots of premature work done to keep it in good nick.

It hasn’t put me off I’m planning on my next car to be a 997.2 4S but that has less issues.

The thing to do is to go in eyes wide open don’t assume it will be fine because as in my case the car was a scrapper but thankfully because I bought it in the dealer network I had a safety net. If it was private... different story and I learner my lesson. I didn't believe the internet and I still think you have to be unlucky but it can happen.

Couple of observations on comparing the cars in question. I almost bought a 987 Cayman S before my Z4MR but it depends what type of guy you are. I like my cars a little bit more on the edge and the boxster and caymans are just fabulous, meaning they are really good, make you feel like a god driving them. Point it to an apex that's where it goes, but it’s so hard to step them out and have a bit of fun. I found them a bit sterile... but purposeful you can make ground very quickly in them but just a bit lacking. They also make power far further up the rev range compared to the S54 in the M, they make 80% of torque at 2500 rpm and get going quick but the 987s are more like 4.5k so you need to ring them a bit more to get the feel, driving around town they can feel quite slow and they drink fuel like no tomorrow, the Z4M I find is pretty good for its output and the 3.0SI is even better you could hit 40mpg on the motorway with it...

The Z4M in comparison feels like an axe murderer and wants to put you through a hedge backward on a damp road. Stepping it out is litteraly a flick of the throttle. It’s also harder to drive quickly on A and B roads you have to grab it by the scruff of the neck. I think because the Z4M was my first sportcar and they have quite a bit more power they 987 felt a bit underwhelming for me. The Z4 also feels a bit more modern the 996/7 were the first modern cars Porsches and the interiors and tech haven’t aged all that well IMO although you can put double din entertainment systems in with airplay etc.

The 987.2 was made is low numbers so finding one in a decent spec is difficult but they improved with a much more reliable engine but they seem to be held at a premium because of this. The 981 generation fixed pretty much all these issues by giving it more power and also has the upgraded unit with very few issues. That would be my starting point if i was looking and the unlike the 2.7 in the 987 the 2.7 in the 981 is similar on the road to the old 3.4 S and is a much nicer place to be.

The 911s are a completely different proposition the 997 is probably my fav simply because in the newer generations they feel a bit heavier less direct with electronic steering and the engine has creeped further and further forward over the years that they aren’t far off being mid engined in the 992.

The newer ones also have a few to many electronics. But for pace and as a GT the 991 is a fabulous car it was a great car to take across Europe but I just felt the 997 was a better drivers car in my previous eurotrip. They just have the best between old and new and although flawed the 997.1 3.8 with sports exhaust sounds epic. The newer DFI engines don’t sound as good IMO.

The 997 is a bit more on edge and you know the engine is out the back and feels like a Z4M in the axe murdering department but the 911s just feel superior in every sense from a driving perspective.

So really depends what you want. The Z4 3.0si is a rare and good looking car but has a few downsides like the electronic steering and unfortunately the Z4M has all the nice bits that would make a 3.0Si feel more purposeful like the quad exhaust etc but it’s a fabulous car for the money abs without doing too much you can make them really great cars. They are also super reliable with very little issues and service and parts are friendly also tax and insurance are pretty favourable in comparison.

The 987s have the kudos and are really purposeful from a handling and responsive nature, the gearbox is like a bolt action rifle hugely better than in the Z4 and they are fast just don’t really feel that quick which is a sign it’s a great car. Worth testing both and seeing what you think but really if it’s a Cayman S the Z4M coupe is a better comparison and IMO the Z4M would nick it slightly at this level. I would take a 981 over both and a 997 Carrera S over a 981 :thumbsup:

Hope this helps although a bit rambly, all are great cars really and you can't go wrong as with any used car purchase buying the best your budget allows will reduce money needed to spend and going in eyes open and get the PPI and worce case walk away.

Couple of pics

996 and 991

ImagePorsche 911's, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImagePorsche 911's, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImagePorsche 991, 996 Carrera 4S, Yorkshire Porsche Festival, Lotherton Hall, Leeds by Tom Scott, on Flickr

991 and the Z4MR

ImageZ&P Eurotrip UK to Monaco 2017 by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImageZ&P Eurotrip UK to Monaco 2017 by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImageBMW Z4M Roadster, Tatton Park by Tom Scott, on Flickr

Old Z4M and 997

ImagePorsche 911 Carrera S, Malcesine, Lake Garda, Italy by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImagePorsche 911, Sustens Pass, Switzerland by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImageIMG_0600 by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImagePorsche 911 Carrera S & BMW Z4M Coupe by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImageIMG_0109 by Tom Scott, on Flickr

ImageBMW Z4M Coupe, Silver Grey, CSL wheels by Tom Scott, on Flickr
Last edited by tomscott on Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:51 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by philip27 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:20 pm

I had two Z4’s e85 and e89 both were 2.5 versions that I enjoyed very much. My original plan was to get a Z4M next but that never quite worked out. I swapped my e89 for a 987 Cayman S mine is a Gen 1 and I have now owned it for over three years and still love driving it although it is very much a weekend car for me.

Caymans are brilliant cars especially on the correct road the handling is superb. I know it’s said loads to the point it becomes a cliche but they do handle brilliantly and have superb balance that gives you loads of confidence. I find the mix of performance and handling ability pretty much perfect for me. My advice is drive one and see if it’s for you.

Buy from a specialist Porsche dealer or from a private seller that has clearly looked after the car properly. Also look to get a pre purchase inspection done it could save you thousands! Be prepared to walk away as well if anything seems off there are plenty about.

Things I’d say you should look for is excellent service history is a must most will have a mix of official Porsche centres and specialist if it’s been to the local quick fit for a service run a mile ! Look for things like extra oil changes and that any advisory items have been rectified on past MOT’s and services.

Read up on bore scoring but don’t let it put you off just be sensible with what you buy. Get a good one change the oil regularly and let the car warm up and you should be fine. IMS is not a big issue on the Cayman especially after 2006. If these are to bigger issues for you though just avoid the gen 1 3.4 987s. The 2.7, 2.9 and gen 2 3.4 don’t suffer these problems.

Discs can rust on the inside so give those a good check they often look fine one the front face. Look for uneven tyre wear these cars are getting on so a good indication it will need suspension / alignment work.

Worth seeing if the manifold / exhaust bolts / clamps have been replaced these often rust and rot and then make future work more difficult and expensive.

In terms of running costs go in with your eyes open even if you buy a great example chances are in 6 - 12 months you will have to spend something on it maintenance wise. I’d say including a minor and major service since I purchased mine I have spent around £3.5k in maintenance. Other items I have had to attend to are air conditioning condensers pretty straight forward DIY job. Various suspension components, tyres, coil packs, extra oil changes every year and few other bits and bobs. They don’t have to stupidly expensive to run but must be looked after or bills will quickly get big ! Just keep on top of the maintenance. Find a good specialist who you can trust.

Downsides for me are despite being quite practical I find it awful to drive around town and in heavy traffic it’s just not fun. It will drink fuel if you have a heavy foot or drive it around town. It’s a sports car after all but I was shocked to begin with just how much fuel it could drink ! Although on a long motorway run it can just about do 30mpg if you are cruising so it’s not all bad.

Hope this helps in someway happy to try answer any other questions you have. Either way a Cayman or a Z4 is a great car to own.
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by neo_24860 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:00 pm

Amazing info and great advice! Thank you all for sharing, really in-depth stuff here.

Thank you 😊
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Porsche Cayman - What are they like?

Post by Darren Slone » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:14 pm

As Andy says I’ve recently sold a Z4MC and bought a Cayman S 987.1, it’s a lovely thing, it’s more reassuring than either of the ///M’s I’ve previously had, not as ‘fizzy’ or on the edge either, for me it’s easier to drive, I really like it, I’ve done a few jobs since I bought it, new A/C condensers, Eibachs, spacers, short shift kit and some new crested centre caps to finish it off, there are some horror stories about IMS etc but do your homework and I’m sure you’ll be very happy if you decide to go down the Cayman route :thumbsup:
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