?? Missing September NC500 run post ??

[DPG]

Ah this again, I remember a few years back when a forum member (female) set up a meet the same time as one of Craig’s. Almost ended up with threats of violence until she backed down

Very sad.

Maybe all arranged meets need admin/Craig’s approval before they can go ahead.

[craig3.2]

Ah this again, I remember a few years back when a forum member (female) set up a meet the same time as one of Craig’s. Almost ended up with threats of violence until she backed down

Very sad.

Maybe all arranged meets need admin/Craig’s approval before they can go ahead.

DPG,I did have a cross word,but only because I asked for the op at that time,years ago,that if they could move it,so it wouldn't clash with the National already had out,and was in roughly same area.

The threats of Violence were Not from me,but Directed to Me,from the op's Boyfriend!
So please get your facts correct, cheers

[craig3.2]

wait I dont get it....
So there were people going on the run that weren't part of the forum and that was a problem? I cant recall that ever being the case before?
This seems like a case of "its ma baw and im gone hame"

Close but not quite the gist of it , i remember reading through the list of attendees & thinking it was strange as majority of the names were not forum users
Yeah,several others thought the same,Andy.
but clearly they were & the run organiser had chosen to "anonymise" them with alternative titles how cool is that

Craig clearly thinks this behaviour to be clandestine & id have to agree , if the run was meant to be private why not do it privately :

Thanks for that,and the sensible,informed post

[craig3.2]

Craig posted on the Dumfries and Galloway post last night complaining that the people who had expressed an interest had been anonymised..as well as unsubstantiated issues relating to this being a majority FB set of people.

This is not true..off the 49 instances of people expressing an interest over 6 runs only 6 instances is of a person who is not currently a Z4 forum member. He in fact is not a member of any groups and wishes to remain anonymous for unconnected personal reasons.

As far as I’m aware it’s not a written requirement for a person to attend to a meeting that is advertised on the Z4 Forum.

Many events are cross posted across many social media sites.

He stated he was going to complain to the moderators.

I received this comment from Sp3ctre today “ I removed these last night as I have had complaints”

Following complaints from certain individuals that they had been harassed by Craig for not expressing an interest in his runs, I took the decision to remove their personal data. Hence the anonymised data.

I’ve written today to the moderators explaining the context and background to these actions.

I’ve not had any reply from moderators save that they will look at it.

To Reply to those allegations....

What I Posted was that by Peter reducing the names to a Single Letter,it was all very Cloak and Dagger,and against the open and inclusive nature of this forum,and its many meets,for many years. And said on the d&g thread,that mods should have a look at its nature.
I am not alone in my thinking,that it was done to exclude others,or keep it "secret" who was attending.

More likely,so that if I happen to talk to or pm those same people, that they would then learn I was Barred from attending Peters runs,which is Every Run in Scotland practically,for next year!

I Did Not Ask for the Threads to be wiped, just to be made more Open and Honest.
Others may well have Complained too,without my knowledge, I can't answer that.

Regards the Private Fb group. Peter text me when I asked about my lack of access to it(I e,no access), and was told by him that the Private group/WhatsApp group was set up because People had told him that they wanted to discuss meets in Private, as they "didn't like me or didn't want to be associated with any runs I was on".

That was quite hurtful, tbh.
While that may be true in some cases,looking at some of the names who were down for Peter's upcoming meets...
Stuart Bell(fb member(afik)....I have never met
Argyll Andy...I have never met
John Thompson(fb member,afik)....I have never met!
Martin Palmer.(fb)..I have never met(although I know his son,a very nice guy,and ex z owner)
Stuart /Peebles z4,met a couple of times,nice guy.
Simon and Nick,both at recent Runs of mine.(and known for quite a few years,both very nice guys)
Moz ,known for years ,and not always agreed on everything, but then who does,and we still enjoy each others company, as far as I am aware(and who attended this years National, in August.


So who doesn't like me/hates me/or doesn't want to be associated with me,Peter??
From those I have exampled above!

Very hurtful,and I told you as much!

Other forum members disagree with you on that.

As said,I didn't say I was going to complain to the Mods,just posted that the mods should look at the Secretive/divisive nature of it,which I posted on the d&g thread.

If they then chose to remove it,then that was their decision,Not mine.
This forum,and meets,should be open and honest,inclusive for all,that was the point of my post!

"You set up private WhatsApp group"..." Following Complaints that I Had Harassed other Forum members to Attend my meets"
What utter rubbish.,..
Like others have done,over years of meets,I post Threads for All to see,And also pm previous or regular attendees of my meets,to bring to their attention when things are on in the future.....as some regular meet goers don't come on here very often.
Hardly harassment Peter. What utter bs!

Peters actions on this has been described by a other forum members I chat to,as pure and simply Bullying!!

Its been quite clear by his actions,he is Primarily the one who wants to Run All the Scottish meets,without any input from me.
So,I throw back at some of the comments posted,by Peters actions,I am now not able to attend any of the Scottish fb group,WhatsApp group or any of the Forum meets that Peter has organised for next year.
Which,happen to Include Runs I have done myself over the past 5 years or so,and we're in the Planning for next year also!!
Which means I am excluded,by the nature of his actions.

As said by others,and I agree,this is pure Bully boy tactics!!


Forum meets can be organised by anyone,but in Scotland,we have always had a Principal member to sort things out,and others contributed in co-ordinattion with those.
By 2015 many of those had moved onto Porsches,etc and the relevant car make meets.
So,when the last person organising them changed car and couldn't commit ,I agreed(with him) to do them in his place.

Over the past 2-3 years,Peter,Richie and Myself all discussed these meets,pre season,so as to have a coordinated effort.
But its been quite clear they want to push me out completely.

Peters actions of late back this up.

He has said I Harass people to attend my meets...NOT True.
He says those attending his meets Dislike/hate me/don't want to be associated with me....(in the main) NOT True ,as evidenced above.....
I am sure most of these people wouldn't have continued to attend the few runs I managed to do this year,for obvious reasons(covid), if that were True.
I am also fairly confident that some of those people wouldn't be aware I was barred from all current/future Peter Bondar meets.
I know several forum members who weren't aware of it,prior to asking me why I wasn't putting my name down for them?!

Again,this is just total,blatant bullying,and I make no Apologies for defending myself.

During the Covid 19 Pandemic,myself and others,continued to Arrange meets which were already in planning,etc and had names down.
Peter Bondar became Very Vocal on the fact that we should All have Stopped organising meets/Drives as a result,and when we chose not to (as, to be fair,nobody knew when it started ,how long it would go on for,etc)
He voiced his distain for this in no uncertain terms,especially towards myself.

As it happened, we managed to get a couple done,when rules allowed.
What I find very ironic, is that,Peter himself then went onto arrange meets on fb,in September, October, etc putting invites out in Private,again,so as to exclude myself,and possibly others.
Very Hypocritical, tbh.

Some described his actions re distain for those organising meets during various lockdown restrictions, which are mainly still Ongoing, and continued insistence that we all Cancel everything, that he was acting like The Covid Police!!

I have been in Isolation during this(March to August,due to my health),and had two friends ,and one of their wife's,suffer very badly from it indeed,so I was taking it serious.
We all abided by rules in place at the time,so why be so forthright in his feelings towards me for doing so.


The reason myself and others class it as Bullying is because what else do you call Victimising someone, to exclude them from every aspect of z4 meets in this forum and other groups, then Barr them from the other Scottish z4 meets/group,based on reasons,that I have stated above,are pretty much not True?

I will be honest,the past couple of years haven't been that great with my health,etc and This Forum is a Big part of what I enjoy in Life,and for the actions of Peter, and one or two other people ,to make me feel even worse,and feel that I can't even look toward to meeting up with people on here for a nice drive out,etc is pretty s**t,tbh

Now that the other side of the story of these events,other than Peters version,are out there,then I Hope people can make an Informed Opinion, Before Posting replies Full of venom?!

Its a real shame it has come to this,but all I will say,Prior to the verbal abuse I got from Pbondar re my organising of runs in the year we have had,I never barred him from coming to any of my meets.
They were open,and out there for anyone to see/join.

Thanks for reading, if you have.
All the best to you all, and maybe I will get to meet some of you in the future,for those I haven't yet met

Re post,to Add
That some have said I want to Organise All Scottish meets,Not True.
I have cordinated them,with Peter and Rich doing them too,in Agreement.,in recent years.

Now,I am getting slated by some that I want to do all Scottish runs( explained in post above).
Well that's exactly What Peter Bondar is now doing, and is excluding me and others I know of in the process.
He has not only barred me from All these upcoming Scottish runs,but has also it out more than a few if the Meets that I have been doing over the past 5-6 years, and that I had in planning for next year also.
But am waiting for Covid rules going forward to be clear before firming things up!

Strange that I don't see those same couple of people having a go at Peter for now doing All Scottish Runs upcoming,when they had a go for me doing them all(which I hadn't been of recent years)
Double Standards,surely?!!,

[Argyll Andy]

Funnily enough someone quoted me in that and when i followed the alert I got a not authorised to view this forum message.. something ive not seen before

Aye that’d been me giving you stick for going to school and not attending

I’ve just had a look at “your posts” and can’t find any reference to that post at all I’ve not been observant enough to notice if it’s happened before

Anyway it was something along the lines of I work in education too but am not held to school holidays but hopefully we’ll catch up at one sometime soon, or something like that

its a double edged sword unfortunately Andy, expensive summer holidays and lack of flexibility but 12 weeks off a year is rather nice

Swings and roundabouts bud. I hear it from the term time staff I work with but the resounding positive is getting all the holidays. Not that any of it matters to me as I’m working from home and have been since the first week in March

[Nictrix]

Craig3.2
Heres an idea
Why don't you just concentrate on the runs you organise and let other people concentrate on theirs and everyone on the forum can join in on any or all of them as they wish .. job done.
Stop all of this petty sniping and leave people alone to participate where they wish without contacting them with questions.
This is meant to be a Z4 lovers forum .. let people enjoy it.

[craig3.2]

Craig3.2
Heres an idea
Why don't you just concentrate on the runs you organise and let other people concentrate on theirs and everyone on the forum can join in on any or all of them as they wish .. job done.
Stop all of this petty sniping and leave people alone to participate where they wish without contacting them with questions.
This is meant to be a Z4 lovers forum .. let people enjoy it.

Stuart,as I said before, am I NOT ALLOWED to REPLY to Peters accusations?
FFS,I am not sniping as you say,just replying to what Peter had put out there,on the Open Forum.
So, because I replied to answer those false allegations,I am out if order, according to you??!!

Also,I don't contact people to talk about Peter,or what's been going on in the background.
I regularly contact various fellow forum members,for General chat,and I have been asked by some other members,why my Name wasn't down,or If I was going,to (Peters runs) which I replied!!

I have regularly contacted people on this forum for years that I know,and have known for years in some cases,and will continue to do so.
I am not contacting them to talk about anything in particular, like you just insinuated.

[craig3.2]

Craig3.2
Heres an idea
Why don't you just concentrate on the runs you organise and let other people concentrate on theirs and everyone on the forum can join in on any or all of them as they wish .. job done.
Stop all of this petty sniping and leave people alone to participate where they wish without contacting them with questions.
This is meant to be a Z4 lovers forum .. let people enjoy it.

Pity pbondar doesn't want me to enjoy it,and is clearly the one turning people against me!!

Or are those people all saying I Harrass them,into coming to my Runs, as Peter stated?

So according to Peter,
Those attending his runs dislike me,for various reasons,and that I Harrass them,into attending my meets?
So maybe those people can answer this,when have I harrassed Any if them into coming to my runs.....other than pm-ing etc to ask if they are coming, doesn't amount to harrassing!

People such as Yourself,
Andy Oldham, Maurice, Nick,Simon,Stuart/Peebles, plus Stuart Bell,Argyll Andy,John Thompson.....none f whom I have Actually ever met or harrassed to come on my runs.

So,if that's the case,maybe those people could give a. Answer to Peters allegations that I Harrass them??

[Nictrix]

Still. Anybody can organise runs, anybody can go on any runs if they choose to do so.
There shouldnt need to be a "principal" in charge of an area.
It shouldnt matter if there are 3 or 4 different runs on the same day, people can pick and choose where they want to go.
I dont see or hear of this in any other part of the country, it shouldnt be needed here either.
If people dont want to go on peters runs, its their choice just the same as if people dont want to go on any you organise.
If you both organise one on the same day its then up to people to decide on their own which one to go on.

If I can answer one point you have made though, I stopped coming on your runs and you know why. The reason was nothing to do with Peter as Im sure it was way before Peter even had a Z4 or was on the forum. ( I have met Peter once and he probably doesnt even remember me) There are others as well and you do know this.

Another point you made was that there were others who had been excluded form Peters runs, Who are these people as nobody else seems to have spoken up?

[enuff_zed]

It shouldnt matter if there are 3 or 4 different runs on the same day, people can pick and choose where they want to go.

Given the Covid restrictions, as outlined in various posts regarding runs, and the need to restrict numbers involved, I would have thought that the idea of having more than one run on the same day would actually be beneficial? More people could join in.
What could be better than a convoy of 6-8 Z4s heading one way, passing a similar convoy heading the other?

[Nictrix]

[/quote]
What could be better than a convoy of 6-8 Z4s heading one way, passing a similar convoy heading the other?
[/quote]

I would love to see that

[craig3.2]

Still. Anybody can organise runs, anybody can go on any runs if they choose to do so.

That's my point exactly,Some of us can't go on any Runs,due to Peters actions.
They are divisive.

There shouldnt need to be a "principal" in charge of an area.
It shouldnt matter if there are 3 or 4 different runs on the same day, people can pick and choose where they want to go.
I dont see or hear of this in any other part of the country, it shouldnt be needed here either.
If people dont want to go on peters runs, its their choice just the same as if people dont want to go on any you organise.
If you both organise one on the same day its then up to people to decide on their own which one to go on.
You're missing my point....
There isn't that big a z4 group of people in Scotland that want to go out on actual Drives,and this makes things clash,and people not coming to one because they gave committed to another already.


If I can answer one point you have made though, I stopped coming on your runs and you know why. The reason was nothing to do with Peter as Im sure it was way before Peter even had a Z4 or was on the forum. ( I have met Peter once and he probably doesnt even remember me) There are others as well and you do know this.

Yes,Stuart, you made it clear to me your feedback that my Runs were downright Dangerous,and that you wouldn't come on anymore of them from the first two or three you attended,years ago.
I and others don't feel my Runs are/were dangerous,but that's your opinion,and you're entitled to it.
But if you read some of what you have posted on this,you are basically saying I am the one causing trouble on here when I am not.
As my reply earlier,am I not allowed to answer the false allegations by Peter??
Or am I not allowed my opinion,and am just to say nothing?

Another point you made was that there were others who had been excluded form Peters runs, Who are these people as nobody else seems to have spoken up?

As said,I talk to several people throughout the year, especially more so with covid lockdown,etc and have done throughout my time on here.
Just because those people don't want to get embroiled in this thread, doesn't mean it isn't so.
Personally I know of several who share my opinion and if they want to or don't want to get involved in this topic on here, then that's their choice.

Enough said, you have made it clear on your feelings towards me(and my runs).
Enjoy your new z and stop adding fuel to the fire.

Re meets,etc....
Thanks to Peters actions,I am now forced to either do several of my own Runs (and not just a few like I was intending), and look as if I am competing with pbondar, as some of the ones I am planning,are in the same area/same roads in some cases, (although it's runs I have done before).
Or .....
I don't bother with doing any of my own meets,and just sit at home ,etc and miss out on the Scottish drives,and catching up with people who I enjoy to catch up with at meets,or those I haven't yet had the pleasure of meeting, and to go enjoy those Drives




I was entitled to reply to what Peter had said.
Now leave it alone.

[mr.tourette]

[Nictrix]

[enuff_zed]

Well Carruthers, the natives are restless today.