North Wales Run, Sunday 05.04.20 - CANCELLED

[idej_z4]

As a moderator I would have thought an 'opinion' is not really what you should be offering. Whatever anyone thinks about it yours surely should be the last voice offering an opinion unless someone has broken a rule?

Just because I am a mod it doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. Jim has been on the forum for 10 years and just because he doesn't have a Z4 anymore shouldn't mean he is excluded. If that was the case Marlon and Wondermike wouldn't be moderators as they no longer own Z4's. The forum is about community also and Jim has made many friends over the 10 years and this would be an opportunity to see them again. The unwritten rule generally is that anybody attending with a non Z4 normally goes at the back.

As I said that's just my view, which I'm entitled to, otherwise if I am here just as a mod then it will be goodbye.

I agree,Steve, moderators should be allowed to air their opinion like the rest of us.
I read this early in the thread,and thought it was a shame Jim was being excluded for not having a z any more,given he had two over 9 years or more,and had the pleasure of knowing him for many years,was sad to see this,as MrWilks had said,he has been on here for years and shouldn't be excluded now from meets.
Though,on the flip side, I have known Simon,etc for years too,and know that he would only be limiting numbers due to logistics if Lunch stops and the Drive itself possibly,as well.
I know myself and others have had this debate the first time we had non z ds at a National meet,on the 3rd one I think? Caused no end of debate,lol.
Also re the Moderators not having zeds and still being Mods. Catch 22 again,as Phil/cj10jeeoer left his role as a mod due to buying a Jag,after years of z ownership.
Part of me thinks a z4 forum should be ran by those with z4s,but if all the Mods who have moved into other cars stopped being Mods,you would continually need to get new replacement mods in, which isn't always easy.

Re the meets/drives,it shouldn't be upto the Moderators to decide who is and isn't allowed on Forum runs as some of them don't even regularly attend meets,while others do,plus it should be left to those who are organising the meet to set their rules in this regard.

I actually replied to SRHutch's response to the above comments, but via message so as not ruin a thread that is supposed to be about a Zed meet in North Wales. Maybe these comments / thoughts / opinions should be taken off this thread so it doesn't detract from the hard work and effort forum members are putting in to make this event happen?

[Pbondar]

The unwritten rule generally is that anybody attending with a non Z4 normally goes at the back

Lots

My reading of it is that both Jim and Si were being very grown up about and it. I think it should be left to them to sort it out

As I understand it NO ONE is saying Jim can’t go

I agree entirely with the unwritten rule and it makes perfect sense

The issue about THIS run as apposed to others or meets is

1. It is likely to be very very popular

2. Logistics have limited the numbers

The only unresolved question is whether who has priority to go on a run is decided by how long you have been a member ( regardless of whether you have a Zed or how long ago you sold it ) or whether you own a Zed

If you assume that people pre current and post z are all ok to turn up at meetings /runs AND you have a condition that on a run non Z4s are at the back (as would the following cars be on a run that was purely Z4s) THEN first come first served should be the queue theory .. often as all run organisers know you have , usually a 5-35% drop out rate for both “am I bovered “ and ‘priority one interrupt’ reasons , so often more last minute spaces occur...

So, IMHO, generally, seems crazy to alienate people who have shown ‘commitment to the cause’ as against maybe a newbie who doesn’t turn up or decides it’s not for him..

Discuss

[jamesditchy]

Lots

My reading of it is that both Jim and Si were being very grown up about and it. I think it should be left to them to sort it out

As I understand it NO ONE is saying Jim can’t go

I agree entirely with the unwritten rule and it makes perfect sense

The issue about THIS run as apposed to others or meets is

1. It is likely to be very very popular

2. Logistics have limited the numbers

The only unresolved question is whether who has priority to go on a run is decided by how long you have been a member ( regardless of whether you have a Zed or how long ago you sold it ) or whether you own a Zed

If you assume that people pre current and post z are all ok to turn up at meetings /runs AND you have a condition that on a run non Z4s are at the back (as would the following cars be on a run that was purely Z4s) THEN first come first served should be the queue theory .. often as all run organisers know you have , usually a 5-35% drop out rate for both “am I bovered “ and ‘priority one interrupt’ reasons , so often more last minute spaces occur...

So, IMHO, generally, seems crazy to alienate people who have shown ‘commitment to the cause’ as against maybe a newbie who doesn’t turn up or decides it’s not for him..

Discuss

This is a thread solely for organisational purposes of on proposed run. This thread has now been hijacked by people throwing their own opinions about. If you really want to discuss the whys and wherefores of people attending with different marques then can a new thread be started with a thread title that highlights this and leave this thread for the purpose it was posted!!!

[Pbondar]

er good point...I’m guilty of a crime I accuse others of..

Apologies

[jamesditchy]

er good point...I’m guilty of a crime I accuse others of..

Apologies

[mr wilks]

My reading of it is that both Jim and Si were being very grown up about and it. I think it should be left to them to sort it out

As I understand it NO ONE is saying Jim can’t go

I agree entirely with the unwritten rule and it makes perfect sense

The issue about THIS run as apposed to others or meets is

1. It is likely to be very very popular

2. Logistics have limited the numbers

The only unresolved question is whether who has priority to go on a run is decided by how long you have been a member ( regardless of whether you have a Zed or how long ago you sold it ) or whether you own a Zed

If you assume that people pre current and post z are all ok to turn up at meetings /runs AND you have a condition that on a run non Z4s are at the back (as would the following cars be on a run that was purely Z4s) THEN first come first served should be the queue theory .. often as all run organisers know you have , usually a 5-35% drop out rate for both “am I bovered “ and ‘priority one interrupt’ reasons , so often more last minute spaces occur...

So, IMHO, generally, seems crazy to alienate people who have shown ‘commitment to the cause’ as against maybe a newbie who doesn’t turn up or decides it’s not for him..

Discuss

This is a thread solely for organisational purposes of on proposed run. This thread has now been hijacked by people throwing their own opinions about. If you really want to discuss the whys and wherefores of people attending with different marques then can a new thread be started with a thread title that highlights this and leave this thread for the purpose it was posted!!!

Starting another thread to discuss the ins & outs of forum run etiquette would only lose the whole reason for it being hijacked .
I do however agree it would be best if the actual thread purpose of organising a forum event was kept to simply what the day involves & who wants to attend .
In hindsight perhaps i shouldn't have made any comment if i had no interest in the event but the more i think about it the less understanding of the criteria i am it actually sets a precedent for future division which on a forum ive always thought of as predominantly friendly , open armed & non divisive ( other than the usual roadster - coupe banter ) its a pretty sad step forward .
Imagine up coming runs organised strictly for M owners or strictly for coupe owners its easy enough to say sorry its down to numbers / demand or sorry this event is couples only but come on , a event for 25 that can't allow the odd non Z
Cars come & go but friendships formed through forum life carry on , the many previous forum runs attended by non Z owners is proof of that .

[patriot66]

In response to the furore that seems to have developed in this thread I will offer some reasons, explanations and opinion of my own. Afterwards I will not respond any further to comments or opinions on the matter as I have plenty on my plate getting everything in place for the 5th April.

First of all to Jim, I am sorry that you now feel that way but as I said originally you are still more than welcome to attend IF there are available spaces nearer the time.
Not that it has any bearing on what I have just said but maybe at this point I should mention that contrary to what some people possibly think, I have never met Jim and never spoken with him, I know nothing about him, how many Z4s he has owned or how long he has been a member on the forum etc.
Also, at no time have I said to Jim that he CANNOT attend or is excluded from the run !

So, let me explain the reason I have said to Jim what I have. The first two runs were massively over subscribed, in fact last year I had to have a subs list for people that wished to attend should someone else drop out. Both years we have used a pub that could cater ( not particularly well last time ! ) for a large number of people and so I was able to offer 35 places. On both occasions we ended up on the day with a convoy of 29 cars....not all of them Z4s.
This year we have changed the route and it has proved extremely difficult to find a pub out in that area of the Welsh hills at that time of day that can cater for a large party of hungry motorists. I have now negotiated with a pub to provide a buffet lunch for 50 people. This obviously equates to 25 places on the run, which I have advised is the maximum number of cars. However, if there are a few solo drivers then the total number of cars may increase slightly.

Hypothetically, if I were to offer a place on the run straight off to say 6 x non-Z4 forum members then I would have a run consisting of 19 x Z4s and 6 x non-Z4s...fair enough. However, I would also potentially have a very long subs list of disgruntled Z4 owning forum members annoyed that they cannot attend because of the 6 x non-Z4s.
People have mentioned forum ethos but surely it is ethically wrong to have a Z4 forum for Z4 enthusiasts where on an organised run non-Z4 owning members take precedence over members that do own a Z4 !
As has been said previously you could potentially end up on a Z4 run with less Z4s than other makes of cars or in the extreme no Z4s at all ! As a Z4 owner and enthusiast that is not a run I would be interested in taking part in.

Finally, IF I do organise another forum run I shall continue to do what I think is ethically correct for the Z4 owning members of a Z4 forum by offering them first choice, and the non-Z4 owning members can gladly join at the back IF there are available places.
This seems to me to be more than fair for ALL members.

[mr wilks]

Ultimately whatever anyone thinks its your event Patriot & you make the rules , i'm still struggling to digest the logic but id like to apologise for any disruption caused , it wasn't my intention & PM sent

[patriot66]

Ultimately whatever anyone thinks its your event Patriot & you make the rules , i'm still struggling to digest the logic but id like to apologise for any disruption caused , it wasn't my intention & PM sent

No need to apologise Mr.Wilks, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but be careful not to choke on my logic

[patriot66]

hi , put me on please Si !!!
Thank you

Hi Radu. Good to hear from you this time. I will add you to the list. Will Cosmin be coming with you ?

[patriot66]

Hi Si.

Can you add me please buddy.

Thanks,

Steve

Hi Steve. No problem Is John riding shotgun again ?

[Chippie]

Hi patriot66
would you please put myself (mick) and Julie down for attending, (e89 35is)
Thanks

[Vegas]

Aye, better add the wingman buddy.

[patriot66]

Hi patriot66
would you please put myself (mick) and Julie down for attending, (e89 35is)
Thanks

Hi Mick. It was nice meeting you both in Jedburgh last October and it will be good to see you again in Wales Look forward to it, Si

[patriot66]

Aye, better add the wingman buddy.