Jigsaw- electrical issues before I admit defeat ***SOLVED***

[enuff_zed]

So are you saying that an issue on any one of those circuits will potentially affect all the others you listed?

[markplant]

Could you try it by pulling all fuses , reinstate one at a time try the function relative to the fuse , as see at what point it starts acting weird, granted you may put a fuse in for something and it still doesn't work as it needs more than one fuse

[bigwinn]

Yeah tried that Mark sadly- fuse pulling saw the issue still there- I’m assuming because there are some components with several fuses

[pvr]

Never knew about the shared fuses that impact others, you learn something all the time (unfortunately at your expense Stuart)

[bigwinn]

Never knew about the shared fuses that impact others, you learn something all the time (unfortunately at your expense Stuart)

Taking one for the team bud

[Usel]

So are you saying that an issue on any one of those circuits will potentially affect all the others you listed?

Yes, think of it like a ring main in a house. One ring main will feed power to the sockets in the lounge, dining room and hallway.
You have plugged in a tv (drivers seat heating,) a lamp (wipers,) a router (passenger seat movement) etc etc
If one of those has a short it can play havoc with everything else.
I suspect there's a short on one of the many fuses I listed above that is say putting 2v (guessing) constantly into ground. Anything sensitive like the drivers seat movement will not work. The passenger seat has a more robust seat switch (no memory) so that still works. When the component with the short is used that puts more power through the ground and creates more problems. Which is why when the roof is used the wipers start moving.

The wipers whilst seem the problem may actually be fine. The power may go to that first as it's the path of least resistance.

I am no expert, just trying to think outside the box. I have never done this but I believe you can measure the current draw across the top of a fuse. When the car is at rest and everything powered down you can put a multimeter either side on top of the fuse to see how much power is being used. You may need a multimeter that measures milivolts but you may get success on the 20v setting especially if the short is above 1v.

[enuff_zed]

So are you saying that an issue on any one of those circuits will potentially affect all the others you listed?

Yes, think of it like a ring main in a house. One ring main will feed power to the sockets in the lounge, dining room and hallway.
You have plugged in a tv (drivers seat heating,) a lamp (wipers,) a router (passenger seat movement) etc etc
If one of those has a short it can play havoc with everything else.
I suspect there's a short on one of the many fuses I listed above that is say putting 2v (guessing) constantly into ground. Anything sensitive like the drivers seat movement will not work. The passenger seat has a more robust seat switch (no memory) so that still works. When the component with the short is used that puts more power through the ground and creates more problems. Which is why when the roof is used the wipers start moving.

The wipers whilst seem the problem may actually be fine. The power may go to that first as it's the path of least resistance.

I am no expert, just trying to think outside the box. I have never done this but I believe you can measure the current draw across the top of a fuse. When the car is at rest and everything powered down you can put a multimeter either side on top of the fuse to see how much power is being used. You may need a multimeter that measures milivolts or but you may get success on the 20v setting especially if the short is above 1v.

Rob, you do seats and electrickery and I’ll do the oily bits

[Usel]

Rob, you do seats and electrickery and I’ll do the oily bits

Ha!

What is helping me understand in this situation is a smart meter install going badly wrong in one of my clients properties.

Smart meter install was at 9am, 2 different electrician companies and 5 electricians later, I finally managed to leave the property at 8pm with a partial fix feeding power to the essentials.

I was only supposed to be there an hour

[bigwinn]

So are you saying that an issue on any one of those circuits will potentially affect all the others you listed?

Yes, think of it like a ring main in a house. One ring main will feed power to the sockets in the lounge, dining room and hallway.
You have plugged in a tv (drivers seat heating,) a lamp (wipers,) a router (passenger seat movement) etc etc
If one of those has a short it can play havoc with everything else.
I suspect there's a short on one of the many fuses I listed above that is say putting 2v (guessing) constantly into ground. Anything sensitive like the drivers seat movement will not work. The passenger seat has a more robust seat switch (no memory) so that still works. When the component with the short is used that puts more power through the ground and creates more problems. Which is why when the roof is used the wipers start moving.

The wipers whilst seem the problem may actually be fine. The power may go to that first as it's the path of least resistance.

I am no expert, just trying to think outside the box. I have never done this but I believe you can measure the current draw across the top of a fuse. When the car is at rest and everything powered down you can put a multimeter either side on top of the fuse to see how much power is being used. You may need a multimeter that measures milivolts but you may get success on the 20v setting especially if the short is above 1v.

Rob

All makes eminent sense and explained in simple terms! Thank you

[pvr]

I can follow the thinking, but that would mean that it triggers a relay to provide the main circuit to the wipers and you would hear the audible relay click from that.

To continue thinking that way - Stuart, do you hear an unrelated relay switch at the time of roof opening?

[bigwinn]

I can follow the thinking, but that would mean that it triggers a relay to provide the main circuit to the wipers and you would hear the audible relay click from that.

To continue thinking that way - Stuart, do you hear an unrelated relay switch at the time of roof opening?

Yep- the two purple ‘roof’ relays buzz rather than click

[pvr]

I can follow the thinking, but that would mean that it triggers a relay to provide the main circuit to the wipers and you would hear the audible relay click from that.

To continue thinking that way - Stuart, do you hear an unrelated relay switch at the time of roof opening?

Yep- the two purple ‘roof’ relays buzz rather than click

That is interesting, we have relays in our products and I can replicate that issue when the (tiny) pulse signal voltage difference is not sufficient to keep the magnet energised, hence buzzing. That would imply a low voltage at the input side, which tallies up with what Rob mentioned about a leak voltafe of 2Volt as that is not sufficient to energise the relay but would make it buzz like mad.

[bigwinn]

I’ve looked at the numbers on each fuse as Rob said

Some high in the region of 1000, some low around 025, but fuse 32 is the one that went straight to 1

1-
2-
3 1000
4 1050
5 1155
6 025
7 025
8 023
9 025
10 976
11 1100
12 895
13 900
14 900
15 1150
16 1200
17-
18-
19 1124
20 1250
21 023
22 023
23 024
24 965
25 024
26 988
27 1000
28 976
29 989
30 900
31 978
32 1
33 010
34-
35-
36 1050
37 1000
38 1045
39 1230
40 1140
41 1100
42 1050
43 1060
44 025
45 1020
46 1000
47 1000
48 1000
49 1000
50 1000
54-60 1000

[bigwinn]

Interestingly Steve and I were perusing the TIS diagrams to spot any commonality with the faults

Although we couldn’t see the wiper linking up, we did spot that the roof and the central display connectors are in the same location near the roof motor behind the seat

Going to have a look there today to see if any wire chafing issues

The central display has been tested on Steve’s car and works perfectly

[Usel]

I’ve looked at the numbers on each fuse as Rob said

Some high in the region of 1000, some low around 025, but fuse 32 is the one that went straight to 1

1-
2-
3 1000
4 1050
5 1155
6 025
7 025
8 023
9 025
10 976
11 1100
12 895
13 900
14 900
15 1150
16 1200
17-
18-
19 1124
20 1250
21 023
22 023
23 024
24 965
25 024
26 988
27 1000
28 976
29 989
30 900
31 978
32 1
33 010
34-
35-
36 1050
37 1000
38 1045
39 1230
40 1140
41 1100
42 1050
43 1060
44 025
45 1020
46 1000
47 1000
48 1000
49 1000
50 1000
54-60 1000

You now need to compare those numbers to your coupe. You really need a roadster but your coupe is better than nothing

On my multimeter 1 is no connection and 000 is a perfect uninterrupted connection. This shown on mine by touching the red and black probes together.