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Running In Service

"M" Specific discussion
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markos
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Running In Service

Post by markos » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:47 pm

I thought BMW pre-registered tons of Z4Ms as they weren't shifting so were able to then sell them cheaper than list.
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Post by VRSteve » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:50 pm

ocrx8 wrote:
breezer wrote:This has been fun.

One question - why is it desirable to have BMW as a first owner? To me that says press car or demonstrator...and I don't know about you, but would you want a car driven sideways on the redline from cold by journos? As for demonstrators, I'm yet to find a salesman who tells me to be more careful and have had many egg me on from cold.
Could also be an ex-management car. Not that this means it would have been driven carefully as more than likely they'll get a new car every six months.
When I bought my Z4M, I sold my 335i back to BMW to pay for it.
The gent I dealt with at BMW used to be one of the directors of CRONK BMW, a big dealership back in the day.

When I told him what I was replacing the 335i with he said "if its a red 56 plate, don't buy it. All the demo cars were red 56 plates and didn't get treated that well". Luckily mines an 07 in Grey!
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Post by Mangozac » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:27 pm

VRSteve wrote: When I bought my Z4M, I sold my 335i back to BMW to pay for it.
The gent I dealt with at BMW used to be one of the directors of CRONK BMW, a big dealership back in the day.

When I told him what I was replacing the 335i with he said "if its a red 56 plate, don't buy it. All the demo cars were red 56 plates and didn't get treated that well". Luckily mines an 07 in Grey!
Makes sense.

Interestingly I was recently chatting about a related topic with a mate who is a BMW tech. We took an i8 for a spin and something came up about buying ex-demo M cars. I asked if it was really wise, since they had likely been really thrashed before the running in service was completed. He replied that you'd be surprised - the vast majority of test drivers are too timid to actually really drive the car hard and never get near the rev limiter. While you still get the odd person who will thrash it properly, it seems that on average it's not a big deal (on brand new cars, anyway - it may be very different for older cars like S54 engines).
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Post by srhutch » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:29 pm

VRSteve wrote:
ocrx8 wrote:
breezer wrote:This has been fun.

One question - why is it desirable to have BMW as a first owner? To me that says press car or demonstrator...and I don't know about you, but would you want a car driven sideways on the redline from cold by journos? As for demonstrators, I'm yet to find a salesman who tells me to be more careful and have had many egg me on from cold.
Could also be an ex-management car. Not that this means it would have been driven carefully as more than likely they'll get a new car every six months.
When I bought my Z4M, I sold my 335i back to BMW to pay for it.
The gent I dealt with at BMW used to be one of the directors of CRONK BMW, a big dealership back in the day.

When I told him what I was replacing the 335i with he said "if its a red 56 plate, don't buy it. All the demo cars were red 56 plates and didn't get treated that well". Luckily mines an 07 in Grey!
You'd need to include 06 plates in that to.
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Post by VRSteve » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:32 pm

srhutch wrote:
VRSteve wrote:
ocrx8 wrote:
Could also be an ex-management car. Not that this means it would have been driven carefully as more than likely they'll get a new car every six months.
When I bought my Z4M, I sold my 335i back to BMW to pay for it.
The gent I dealt with at BMW used to be one of the directors of CRONK BMW, a big dealership back in the day.

When I told him what I was replacing the 335i with he said "if its a red 56 plate, don't buy it. All the demo cars were red 56 plates and didn't get treated that well". Luckily mines an 07 in Grey!
You'd need to include 06 plates in that to.
Yep, very true!
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Post by craig3.2 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:30 am

markos wrote:I thought BMW pre-registered tons of Z4Ms as they weren't shifting so were able to then sell them cheaper than list.
Just the Coupes,lol....
They sold the Coupes at a lower initial price,and gave bigger discounts on them, apparently,lol :poke:

Joking we aside, (we all know coupes are now worth more)......
All this fretting over servicing/run in is a bit ott ,IMHO....Just get out there and enjoy driving them and stop fretting over a 50 or even a couple of hundred miles here or there,as some have said,there are tollerances built in to these things :D

Btw,mine was done on time :thumbsup: :rofl:
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Post by ocrx8 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:07 am

Welcome to the elite club, Craig! :thumbsup: :poke:
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Post by Fishy Dave » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:19 pm

For the last week I have been conversing with BMW UK and more recently with BMW Classic in Germany, who in turn are contacting M GmbH, to establish once and for all which fluids are used at the initial fill in our S54. I have given my own chassis number for reference and will report back. :)
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Post by TomK » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:42 pm

Be interesting to hear what they say, particularly as within BMW's own operating fluids bulletin they state

"8.0 Break-In Instructions
During the break-in period of a new engine or parts of a reconditioned engine (new bearings, crankshaft, pistons, etc.)
BMW engines do not require special break-in oils."
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Post by mmm-five » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:51 pm

TomK wrote:Be interesting to hear what they say, particularly as within BMW's own operating fluids bulletin they state

"8.0 Break-In Instructions
During the break-in period of a new engine or parts of a reconditioned engine (new bearings, crankshaft, pistons, etc.)
BMW engines do not require special break-in oils."
Maybe they just use 'standard' break-in oils - or decided to simply replace the break-in oils with a 1200 mile break-in process?
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Post by TomK » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:01 pm

mmm-five wrote:
TomK wrote:Be interesting to hear what they say, particularly as within BMW's own operating fluids bulletin they state

"8.0 Break-In Instructions
During the break-in period of a new engine or parts of a reconditioned engine (new bearings, crankshaft, pistons, etc.)
BMW engines do not require special break-in oils."
Maybe they just use 'standard' break-in oils - or decided to simply replace the break-in oils with a 1200 mile break-in process?
Sorry i should have included the next sentence...
"All of the multiple grade oils can be used, as long as they conform with BMW specifications"

That is all that is said about the matter in their Jan 2013 bulletin.
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Post by Babw » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:07 am

mmm-five wrote:
TomK wrote:Be interesting to hear what they say, particularly as within BMW's own operating fluids bulletin they state

"8.0 Break-In Instructions
During the break-in period of a new engine or parts of a reconditioned engine (new bearings, crankshaft, pistons, etc.)
BMW engines do not require special break-in oils."
Maybe they just use 'standard' break-in oils - or decided to simply replace the break-in oils with a 1200 mile break-in process?
No mass produced manufacturer uses break in oils on factory line built engines. Running in oils/SAE 30 etc that clings to the wall to stop glazing aren't required because the tolerances are good in OEM engines. I think most people here are confusing running in of hand built engines with break in/seat when engines are slowly built up into thermal capacity.

I like the thought of BMW letting middle aged women (my mum was about 45 when she bought an M3 as a daily) drive off the forecourt with SAE 30 which most have a maximum life of 1000 miles before it rapidly breaks down + the running in procedure has to be so strict that it would pretty much be suicide.

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Post by ronk » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:13 am

Babw wrote: ..... middle aged women (my mum was about 45 .......
She will love you for that comment fella! :rofl:
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Post by craig3.2 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:41 am

ocrx8 wrote:Welcome to the elite club, Craig! :thumbsup: :poke:
:thumbsup: :driving:
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Post by Fishy Dave » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:21 pm

I've had a definitive answer back from BMW and they have given me permission to quote this publicly. It confirms what Babw said and hopefully clears this up for ever more....

Dear Mr Smitheram

Thank you for your patience whilst we have been waiting to hear back from our contacts at the factory. We are pleased to confirm that the oil for rear axle differential, gearbox and engine are all the same as the oils used for replacement servicing.

LD39658 E85 M Roadster
Production date: 24-Aug-2006

Engine - S54
- SAE 10W-60

Gearbox - GS6-37BZ
- MTF-LT-2

Rear axle
BMW MSP/A Synthetic

No running-in lubricants are used in these components between build and 1,200 miles service.

Building upon this information, we are mindful that your initial concern was regarding the long-term impact of cars missing or having late 1,200 mile services. Our ‘best-practice’ recommendation would always be for prospective owners to look for vehicles with a service history that rigorously applies to the recommended schedules.

The 1,200 mile service for M-Product is designed in order to remove any deposits within engine / gearbox / differential that occur naturally with the bedding in of new components. Given M vehicles can and do operate at higher loads, temperatures and speeds compared to ‘normal’ Series BMW’s, effects of missing the 1200 mile service could have a detrimental effect on component longevity. It is perhaps worth highlighting that although BMW recommends service completion at 1,200 miles, a grace period for warranty purposes can be applied mindful of the fact that customers may wish to complete running-in during a vacation or similar. That grace period is +500 miles (1,700 for a maximum permissible). No grace for warranty is provided beyond that mileage.

Kind regards,

(Name Supplied)

BMW
United Kingdom
BMW Genius


My thoughts, for what they are worth:
An early or late running in service could indicate an uncaring first owner, but at least we have reassurance from BMW that their are no specific bedding in oils in our/my S54 (as confirmed by Babw and suspected by myself and many others). There could be metallic particles in the oils during the first 1200 miles, but I would have thought an oil filter would catch these from the engine oil, leaving just the gearbox and diff with bits potentially floating about. Most cars now are probably not warrantied by BMW anymore, so unless you were thinking of having a BMW warranty or p/x with a main dealer I don't think the grace period will be an issue for many.
Only the first owner will know how they drove the car in that first 1200 miles, they may have been too gentle, too harsh, thrashed from cold, who knows?
An early or late running in service wouldn't put me buying off a car providing other factors such as servicing and wear were as expected, 5+ owners and 10 years later a late first service is probably of minor consequence now.

Cheers, Dave :)
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