Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.

Possible final direction...

"M" Specific discussion
Online
User avatar
Vanne
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:55 pm
Location: Dubai
Contact:

Possible final direction...

Post by Vanne » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:09 am

beanie wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:33 pm F**k yeah! Amazing :o 8)

Could re-cast our blocks in something way lighter, give it over square dimensions and make it Rev to the moon. Group buy anyone......

Actually, sod the group buy, lets all just bully vanne until he caves in :poke: :D
lol, not much bullying required.. if this goes ahead, it will be for next years Dubai 24H, not this coming Jan, but the next. and id be looking for a co-driver...

might see if i can come up some ideas on how this would all fit together.. anyone keen to sponsor? :D :lol:
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by Severn Tuning

Image

2skiddy
Member
Member
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:07 am

Possible final direction...

Post by 2skiddy » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:21 am

Hi Vanne, top marks for wanting to do this, but......if you want it to look like the Red Bull car, you are in for a LOT of fabrication work! The body kit will bolt on relatively easily, if it is the proper BMW Motorsport item, as in the orange and green cars, the other copy kits might be a little more challenging? IIRC Flossmann do a kit with deeper arch lips to allow for a higher ride height, without it looking odd. I have seen a black and orange race car with this kit on, but it doesn't look quite as good as the proper thing. The GT car looks so right, that you don't realise just how much it is lowered and modified from the standard item. The suspension will get totally out of whack if you lower the car enough to make it look correct, and then the tyres will be hitting the tops of the inner wheel arches. The guy in Australia did lots of mods to get it all working, although somewhat different to the factory approach. The differential and rear inner suspension pivot points have to be raised, and also the front suspension to suit. There are many other things too, and it would be running very close to the ground, which compromises road use to a great extent. I sincerely hope you do it, but it will be a very different sort of car afterwards.

User avatar
Fishy Dave
Member
Member
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:01 pm
Location: Wiltshire, England
Contact:

Possible final direction...

Post by Fishy Dave » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:06 pm

Vanne wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:09 amif this goes ahead, it will be for next years Dubai 24H, not this coming Jan, but the next. and id be looking for a co-driver...
Interested :thumbsup:
Corvette C6
Mazda RX-8 race car
Now sold: Z4M Roadster, the best all round car I have owned.

Online
User avatar
Vanne
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:55 pm
Location: Dubai
Contact:

Possible final direction...

Post by Vanne » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:19 pm

Fishy Dave wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:05 pm 20170910_145852.jpg

This was racing at Brands Hatch when I was working there a couple of months back, looked superb. 8)
Dave, any more pics of this mate?

Cheers

V.
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by Severn Tuning

Image

beanie
Member
Member
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:57 pm
Location: Bournemouth/Turin

Possible final direction...

Post by beanie » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:51 pm

TomK wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:50 pm I had the luck and joy of driving an eagle e-type recently, this is exactly what they did and recast the jag straight six in aluminium... but it does cost a million squid! :whistle:
I seem to remember a post/thread on you driving it, I had no idea they'd re done the block though! Goes some way to explaining the cost I suppose.


Vanne wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:09 am
lol, not much bullying required.. if this goes ahead, it will be for next years Dubai 24H, not this coming Jan, but the next. and id be looking for a co-driver...

might see if i can come up some ideas on how this would all fit together.. anyone keen to sponsor? :D :lol:
Sounds like that will be one hell of an experience 8) as for sponsorship, I can stretch to a packet of hob nobs and a curly wurly if that's any good to you :?
Image
RUBYIMOLACARBON

User avatar
Machine monkey
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 11310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: In the shire Oxfordshire

Possible final direction...

Post by Machine monkey » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:44 pm

TomK wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:50 pm
beanie wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:33 pm Could re-cast our blocks in something way lighter,
I had the luck and joy of driving an eagle e-type recently, this is exactly what they did and recast the jag straight six in aluminium... but it does cost a million squid! :whistle:
Am I being stupid hear?! But if you want an aluminium block dose a m54 not have near identical engine architecture? They are dirt cheap £500 for a good one! That’s what I would be looking at?!
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

Image

User avatar
Fishy Dave
Member
Member
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:01 pm
Location: Wiltshire, England
Contact:

Possible final direction...

Post by Fishy Dave » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:10 pm

Vanne wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:19 pmDave, any more pics of this mate?
I only had my phone so this was as good as it got, I can tell you it sounded great, but that doesn't really help. :D
20170910_142425.jpg
20170910_142425.jpg (199.39 KiB) Viewed 757 times
Corvette C6
Mazda RX-8 race car
Now sold: Z4M Roadster, the best all round car I have owned.

User avatar
TomK
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2363
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:50 pm
Location: West London

Possible final direction...

Post by TomK » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:48 am

Machine monkey wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:44 pm
TomK wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:50 pm
beanie wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:33 pm Could re-cast our blocks in something way lighter,
I had the luck and joy of driving an eagle e-type recently, this is exactly what they did and recast the jag straight six in aluminium... but it does cost a million squid! :whistle:
Am I being stupid hear?! But if you want an aluminium block dose a m54 not have near identical engine architecture? They are dirt cheap £500 for a good one! That’s what I would be looking at?!
I have no idea about the specific differences between the two but you'd have to ask the question why did bmw give their M model a heavy iron block vs the (I imagine) similar aluminium block they had to hand. Remember this engine spins up to 8K with a long stroke ergo piston speed is extremely high, cylinders are 4 mm apart or something like that on this 3.2 litre and aluminium at the time was imo not cost effective to produce in the quality needed. The mclaren v12 famously consisting of "2 m3 engines stuck together" did have an ali block but then, oh yep, it cost a s**t load of money too.
All that said I'd imagine someone's probably tried it out there somewhere :D
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

User avatar
Machine monkey
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 11310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: In the shire Oxfordshire

Possible final direction...

Post by Machine monkey » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:55 am

TomK wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:48 am
Machine monkey wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:44 pm
TomK wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:50 pm
I had the luck and joy of driving an eagle e-type recently, this is exactly what they did and recast the jag straight six in aluminium... but it does cost a million squid! :whistle:
Am I being stupid hear?! But if you want an aluminium block dose a m54 not have near identical engine architecture? They are dirt cheap £500 for a good one! That’s what I would be looking at?!
I have no idea about the specific differences between the two but you'd have to ask the question why did bmw give their M model a heavy iron block vs the (I imagine) similar aluminium block they had to hand. Remember this engine spins up to 8K with a long stroke ergo piston speed is extremely high, cylinders are 4 mm apart or something like that on this 3.2 litre and aluminium at the time was imo not cost effective to produce in the quality needed. The mclaren v12 famously consisting of "2 m3 engines stuck together" did have an ali block but then, oh yep, it cost a s**t load of money too.
All that said I'd imagine someone's probably tried it out there somewhere :D
My point Tom was the talk of casting a block from lighter materials. Basically aluminium. There is already a block that has similar architecture. It might need moding and beefing up. But it would be cheaper than casting from scratch or machining from solid.

There are plenty of high revving high horse power engines out there made from aluminium. I would think the cast iron block was chosen for a number of reasons. Reliability would sure have been one but i best cost was a big one too. But any M owner wanting to save weight at the front? Surly carbon fibre panels will do so much. But not a lot the biggest and best thing to do is loose engine weight or move it. Problem being either is a massive big engineering job. There is a fair bit of room between the back of the engine and the fire wall. So new engine/gearbox mounts dry sump so you could lower the engine and move it back. Would probably be the best and easiest option for weight saving on the car. You would need to shorten the prop shaft to but none of that work is really that difficult.
My little blue zed is in lots of bits. With lots of things started and not many finished! I may have found the limits of my time and ability!!

Image

2skiddy
Member
Member
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:07 am

Possible final direction...

Post by 2skiddy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:57 am

As Machine Monkey points out, the factory racers did actually move the engine back and fitted dry sump, making it almost front mid engined. The list of mods is quite extensive!

Online
User avatar
Vanne
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:55 pm
Location: Dubai
Contact:

Possible final direction...

Post by Vanne » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:45 pm

Lol yeah i am not looking to build a factory racer, as i don't have the 200K+ euro required to do that. If this goes ahead it will be very light, very wide, with lots of rubber, on a semi stock e86m chassis.
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by Severn Tuning

Image

2skiddy
Member
Member
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:07 am

Possible final direction...

Post by 2skiddy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:09 pm

I really hope you do it, I'm sure it will be a great project. I think this sort of conversion will gain in popularity, as there are very few at the moment, and they look sooooo good! A wide bodied car, could also be built on a non M car, giving a bit more scope with power plants etc. I was going to use a 135i N54 engine and DCT box, but my engine builder said it could't be programmed on standalone ECUs. Shouldn't have listened, as it can now I believe!
I think the car at Brands could be the ex Albertisma GT4 car that had a wide body kit on it?
Good luck Vanne!

Online
User avatar
Vanne
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:55 pm
Location: Dubai
Contact:

Possible final direction...

Post by Vanne » Thu May 03, 2018 11:47 am

Image

Bringing this thread back. Just completed a rather lengthy phone/email discussion that went over 2 months with @Flossmann.

Plans are in motion... kinda.... Stay tuned.. possibly something might come out of this...

.:thumbsup:

This will have to go on hold again. Plans changed due to employer being Cee you next Tuesdays. Amazing how greedy some people are. :x
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by Severn Tuning

Image

Post Reply