Not joined yet? Register for free and enjoy features such as alerts, private messaging and viewing latest posts and topics.

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

"M" Specific discussion
Post Reply
User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 10973
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Beedub » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:21 pm

91k is alot of miles for a high performance engine, the engine looks in keeping with that , the plugs however look like they were well past their best a long time ago, i hope this isn't the case with the rest of the maintainence :o ....
www.topwrapz.com - Multi Award Winning - Detailing | Vinyl Wrap | Paint Protection Film Specialists |

Z4M-2006
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 7020
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:53 am
Location: High Peak,Derbyshire.

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Z4M-2006 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:46 pm

This tale gets more odd as the days go on...

User avatar
GuidoK
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3171
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:37 am
Location: all over the place

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by GuidoK » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:02 pm

Photos are rather small and non explanatory, but a piece of broken piston ring could do that trick... (not that it looks like pistonring particulary, but it can be a source of metal, mostly with very bad results...trust me, dont google....)
But that had to show up in a compression test. That is something I would have done first, especially with the valve cover coming off.

But with all shop repairs, you're dependant on the shop and their doing and explanatory story. To us you're just a middleman feeding us 3nd degree information. That makes this very hard to diagnose or to give solid advice.
Thats why I do everything myself. No questions unanswered :wink:
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch

dannytheduck1985
Member
Member
Posts: 777
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:28 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by dannytheduck1985 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:23 am

Buy a new lump and recon it.
84’ E28 Alpina B9
83’ VW B2 Passat CL
90’ Mercedes 300E-24
90’ Vauxhall Carlton GSI 3000 24V manual
85’ Opel Ascona Cabriolet

User avatar
Ewazix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 5:30 pm
Location: Somerset

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Ewazix » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:08 am

Having just re-read this thread I think there's some good learning particularly since nobody called the fault correctly including our collective expertise and the technicians with hands on the motor. Fact was there was no other symptom, prior issue or developing 'noise' and the noise itself wasn't completely typical of regular S54 catastrophic failures people mentioned. I'd certainly be asking for a compression test and a bore-scope inspection of cylinders before committing to work if faced with a similar situation in the future.

I'm still curious to know the source of the metal in the bore?
2003 2.5 SE, low miles, Sterling Grey, 108's & Eagles, no stubby here! Unmolested.
2018 Cooper S Countryman
Fiesta Ecoboost

User avatar
Yorkie Z
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2594
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Plymouth

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Yorkie Z » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:10 am

dannytheduck1985 wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:23 am Buy a new lump and recon it.
Surly by the time you buy a engine and pay for a rebuild it would be more than getting his fixed?
A Dirty M///

User avatar
T1berious
Member
Member
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 6:34 am

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by T1berious » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:03 am

Yorkie Z wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:10 am
dannytheduck1985 wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:23 am Buy a new lump and recon it.
Surly by the time you buy a engine and pay for a rebuild it would be more than getting his fixed?
That’s exactly what I thought. The engine already has had the big ends replaced. Apart from it being a 91k engine, with associated wear, the head gasket has been replaced, cams followers checked and any worn items replaced and any preventative maintenance done.

My own fault for a buying a high mileage car in the 1st place. Mad fool that I am. Anyway, we’re test driving a Cayman S in a couple of weeks :)
Current
718 Cayman GTS 4.0, Kia EV6 GT line S

F87 M2C ,F82 440i, E85 Z4MR, E92 330i All Gone!

Image

User avatar
GuidoK
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3171
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:37 am
Location: all over the place

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by GuidoK » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:37 pm

Ewazix wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:08 am Having just re-read this thread I think there's some good learning particularly since nobody called the fault correctly including our collective expertise and the technicians with hands on the motor.
Thats because its impossible to do over the internet with 3rd hand information.
I mean if I ask at what rpm a video is taken and that piece of info isn't shsred.....
What are the chances of getting stethoscope sound files of different parts of the head, sump, manifold, block etc.
To do that over the internet takes hours, while doing it in person takes 1 minute with a 5quid tool...

So thats the difference between internet dianose and irl diagnose: what is impossible for the one is dead easy for the other
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch

Z4M-2006
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 7020
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:53 am
Location: High Peak,Derbyshire.

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Z4M-2006 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:07 pm

Ewazix wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:08 am Having just re-read this thread I think there's some good learning particularly since nobody called the fault correctly including our collective expertise and the technicians with hands on the motor. Fact was there was no other symptom, prior issue or developing 'noise' and the noise itself wasn't completely typical of regular S54 catastrophic failures people mentioned. I'd certainly be asking for a compression test and a bore-scope inspection of cylinders before committing to work if faced with a similar situation in the future.

I'm still curious to know the source of the metal in the bore?
This tale is far from over....

Metal inside the bore is never a good sign... Where has the metal come from?

There doesnt seem to be any valve or piston fragmentation,so can only assume that something has come down the inlet..

If a piston ring fragment has come up the side of the piston,then the bore would be scrap.

User avatar
Ewazix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 5:30 pm
Location: Somerset

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Ewazix » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:05 pm

GuidoK wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:37 pm
Ewazix wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:08 am Having just re-read this thread I think there's some good learning particularly since nobody called the fault correctly including our collective expertise and the technicians with hands on the motor.
Thats because its impossible to do over the internet with 3rd hand information.
I mean if I ask at what rpm a video is taken and that piece of info isn't shsred.....
What are the chances of getting stethoscope sound files of different parts of the head, sump, manifold, block etc.
To do that over the internet takes hours, while doing it in person takes 1 minute with a 5quid tool...

So thats the difference between internet dianose and irl diagnose: what is impossible for the one is dead easy for the other
All good points obviously.

I'm just sharing a thought that having read this tale I wouldn't allow major work to be carried out until basics like bore-scope examination and compression tests had been reported on, either or both of which would have identified the source before expensive trial and error parts replacements took place.
2003 2.5 SE, low miles, Sterling Grey, 108's & Eagles, no stubby here! Unmolested.
2018 Cooper S Countryman
Fiesta Ecoboost

Z4M-2006
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 7020
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:53 am
Location: High Peak,Derbyshire.

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Z4M-2006 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:10 pm

Agreed,

The diagnosis trail on this car seem to have been arse backwards

User avatar
T1berious
Member
Member
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 6:34 am

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by T1berious » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:40 pm

GuidoK wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:37 pm
Ewazix wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:08 am Having just re-read this thread I think there's some good learning particularly since nobody called the fault correctly including our collective expertise and the technicians with hands on the motor.
Thats because its impossible to do over the internet with 3rd hand information.
I mean if I ask at what rpm a video is taken and that piece of info isn't shsred.....
What are the chances of getting stethoscope sound files of different parts of the head, sump, manifold, block etc.
To do that over the internet takes hours, while doing it in person takes 1 minute with a 5quid tool...

So thats the difference between internet dianose and irl diagnose: what is impossible for the one is dead easy for the other
The video was taken at tick over. Guys, as awesome as the feedback has been. I’m of the mind that the guy might have not called it but the strip has highlighted issues that might have been otherwise missed. The metal fragment is a massive concern and thankfully the mechanic is hell bent on finding the source of said fragment.

My options were pretty limited as some garages I had sent the video to had said they wouldn’t touch it. I’m in Brum, outside of a main dealer (who I suspect were a bit clumsy with a spark plug) my options were very limited as it happened while I was at work. To be honest I was thinking of limping it back home and I’m glad the guy said, mirroring a lot of you here, don’t f**king drive it!

It’s in pieces, it can’t realistically go anywhere else so it’s stuck where it is.

If you could let me know what you would change / get replaced while the engine was stripped that would be super helpful :)

Again, cheers for the support!

T1b
Current
718 Cayman GTS 4.0, Kia EV6 GT line S

F87 M2C ,F82 440i, E85 Z4MR, E92 330i All Gone!

Image

User avatar
Smartbear
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:54 pm
Location: a barn in Somerset

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Smartbear » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:43 pm

Hi, does the M car have a disa valve? This has been known to launch itself through the engine on other models where fitted :?
Rob
Image

e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold

User avatar
ph001
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3870
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:53 pm
Location: N. Yorkshire.

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by ph001 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:19 pm

Smartbear wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:43 pm Hi, does the M car have a disa valve? This has been known to launch itself through the engine on other models where fitted :?
Rob
It doesn't Rob.
2007 E85 Z4 3.0Si manual :driving:
19" CSL's | Eibach Springs | Aeroskirts | Z4M front bumper | Clear brake light | ZHP | RCH+| Stubby

2004 E46 M3 coupe manual - gone but not forgotten.

Image

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 10973
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Beedub » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:52 pm

if the motor is now removed, id pretty much do a full rebuild at this point..... uprate the vanos, engine mounts while your their, look at the followers and camshafts, the bearings have just been done, so literally go to town imo.
www.topwrapz.com - Multi Award Winning - Detailing | Vinyl Wrap | Paint Protection Film Specialists |

Post Reply