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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by bmwaddict » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:55 pm

original guvnor wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:45 am I've driven Darren's Z4MR a few times and it is a lot less stiff than my Z4MC. I would say immediately noticeably so. That's not to its detriment - if anything I think the Z4MR is the nicer road car. The coupe is more fidgety and less comfortable.
Definitely agree with this after having been in both.
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Beedub » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:54 pm

if I'm honest i think the stiffness is the only point we cling onto as a difference because their is so little to distinguish these two... i had the choice to buy a new coupe or a new roadster ( both were sub 700 miles ) i drove both a length, really at length and not once was my choice of the roadster determined or not determined by its stiffness i just liked the roof off experience , just why id probably have an s2000 over the a coupe if their was one, ..... the z4m roadster has a higher rigidity figure than the e46 m3 coupe and lotus exige for gods sake, lol!!! its not even an argument... No one seems to mention either on most of the track test in the media the roadster was actually quicker as it was lighter !! honestly the choice is simply based on which floats your boat more imo.

Having spent ALOT of time on track with my car, and tracking my mates 3.,0si coupe, i really cant feel flex in the chassis, and i think alot of people are commenting on the slightly softer factory dampers and not the flex of the chassis but cant distinguish the difference of the two.... i have a solid track car setup suspension and the car is rock solid i have proven sprint track times, beating gt3s and high power evo's etc and the like, on a timed lap by quite a margin, time and time again.... All on cheapo nankang semi slicks.

Both are wonderful in my eyes and i don't get involved in the coupe is this or the roadster is this or doesnt have this or doesnt have that , its sooooooo insignificant, we all own fantastic sports cars.

i think we all forget the z4m roadster or coupe these cars were NEVER celebrated to be what we all feel they are, they were often named the runts of the litter..... The best reviews i read or watched of the z4m were always of the roadster, Top gear richard hammond piece, Fifth gear with jason plato and the fantastic article from evo where they placed it top against the boxster S , tuscan red rose and alpina RS.... I never once read a review where the coupe came out on-top in a test like this against its equivalent, the caymans S :wink:

even a recent back to back with the cayman gt4 which id guess is probably much stiffer again than the z4 coupe, a whole generation forward didn't outline a lack of stiffness in my z4 R, this isn't about being a biased owner its just not something thats an issue otherwise i wouldn't have brought the car.

i remember the marketing for the z4 at the time , they had a picture of the bare z4 chassis upside and quoted how the frame could manage twice its weight again .... very impressive!
Last edited by Beedub on Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Beedub » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:57 pm

Fishy Dave wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:53 am
nickw6666 wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:56 pmThe Z4M Roadster and Coupe have their place and both have their benefits, and both are hard core driving cars. That said, by adding a permanent hard roof, the Coupe is twice as stiff as the Roadster (32000 Nm/degree v 14500 Nm/degree), so there can be no way that a Roadster can feel nearly as stiff as a Coupe when really pushing on such as on track, even though the Roadster is more than stiff enough. In standard form, the Coupe will be slightly faster around the Ring than a Roadster simply due to the rigidity and slightly stiffer suspension set up.
I take responsibility for those comments. Not disputing the torsional figures, but I do stand by my feelings that I can't really tell the difference in chassis stiffness when driving on track. I can feel plenty of other differences when hopping from one to another but stiffness (oo-er) isn't one of them. It could be that the Roadster chassis is so stiff that to tell the difference between this and the Coupe requires a pro driver, stopwatch and a 12.9 mile circuit? When Tom and I have stopped cars (at four or five circuits now) our performance is comparable in both cars but the spec and geometry keeps changing so it is difficult to make exact chassis comparisons. I've owned other convertibles where chassis flex can be felt, but the Z4 isn't one of them. I did say 'it feels almost as stiff as the Coupe' in the article. :)
I would like to get a few of us together at a trackday next year and providing the driver takes responsibility for the well being of my car I'm happy for a Coupe driver to compare for themselves.
nickw6666 wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:56 pmIt's as if he is trying to create a case for the Roadster over the Coupe, which is nonsense of course as if you want open top experience you go for the Roadster, and if you want the permanent roof and coupe form and stiffer set up you go with the Coupe.
I think I probably was making a case for the Roadster, that it is as good as the Coupe, not better, not worse. Too often I have read how the M Coupe is the one to go for as an investment/track car/hardcore driving machine with the M Roadster being largely forgotten or considered the 'soft' option. This writer actually phoned me back after nearly an hours telephone call to clarify if the M Roadster was sort of like a standard Boxster whilst the M Coupe was a Cayman S equivalent? :headbang:
It wound me up a bit and led me to mention the lower current purchase price of the Roadster, slightly less weight etc. As you say they are both hardcore driving machines, but Joe Public doesn't seem to know that.

You are right that it is very different from the Pistonheads guide. They had far more space and spoke to more owners in that one, with research covering many weeks. The Autocar writer does one of these articles every week and is limited to a couple of pages to list the things he thinks the average armchair reader/pub expert will want to read. I did politely offer to proof read the article but he declined.

It's difficult to know how to approach the rod bearing issue in an article like this. Very few people seem to have experienced the problem, but it is known and can strike at almost any mileage. How would you (I don't just mean you Nick) suggest it is mentioned without it seeming like a ticking time bomb?

Dave :)

Even the rod bearing issue..... i mean have you seen the issues porsche have with their engines.... lol!!! this is nothing, s2000s.... they also have their hidden issues too, engine related!!! he s54 is a master piece for a mass production engine, with some really cool race tech still be used by the like of the Gt3 and f12 TDF to name a few! The solid valve train is a PITA to service and very expensive but we wont be seeing this type of stuff on your sub 50k cars anymore them days are GONE!

if i need to change my RBs for a grand at higher miles, no problem, if i need to address my vanos or head gasket , No problem, its a minor for such an engine, ill open mine up way before anything goes wrong and do some preventative work, these cars need looking after.
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by TomK » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:04 pm

bmwaddict wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:55 pm
original guvnor wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:45 am I've driven Darren's Z4MR a few times and it is a lot less stiff than my Z4MC. I would say immediately noticeably so. That's not to its detriment - if anything I think the Z4MR is the nicer road car. The coupe is more fidgety and less comfortable.
Definitely agree with this after having been in both.
The only times I've driven dave's wendy house and likewise him in my proper car has been on track. Perhaps on the road with potholes etc the differences are more noticeable, but on a smooth(ish) track at 9/10ths (not my car :P ) the roadster showed no signs of lacking stiffness relative to mine.

eta I'm pretty sure the Z4M roadster is considerably stiffer than the E46M3 and no one ever seems to complain about that thing flexing. This stiffness thing is a bit of a red herring imo.
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Beedub » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:59 am

TomK wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:04 pm
bmwaddict wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:55 pm
original guvnor wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:45 am I've driven Darren's Z4MR a few times and it is a lot less stiff than my Z4MC. I would say immediately noticeably so. That's not to its detriment - if anything I think the Z4MR is the nicer road car. The coupe is more fidgety and less comfortable.
Definitely agree with this after having been in both.
The only times I've driven dave's wendy house and likewise him in my proper car has been on track. Perhaps on the road with potholes etc the differences are more noticeable, but on a smooth(ish) track at 9/10ths (not my car :P ) the roadster showed no signs of lacking stiffness relative to mine.

eta I'm pretty sure the Z4M roadster is considerably stiffer than the E46M3 and no one ever seems to complain about that thing flexing. This stiffness thing is a bit of a red herring imo.

it does..... so when i read constantly about the "flex" i usually know its because their is nothing else to say, lol..... imagine that, one of bmws most complete track models the e46 CSL, and the z4mR has a stiffer chassis, come on get outa here lol!!!! Pick which one looks best and enjoy the platform, but which ever you choose will need some suspension changes to realise what the car can truly do....
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Gazc » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:02 am

I think the stiffness thing goes back to the Z3M which was very wobbly until the coupe came along. People who don't know any different think wrongly that the Z4M is the same.
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Woots » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:45 am

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Beedub » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:27 pm

Woots wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:45 am I want one (again)
save up your beer tokens and buy mine! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: everything is for sale at the right price , i think :thumbsup:
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Woots » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:33 pm

Beedub wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:27 pm
Woots wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:45 am I want one (again)
save up your beer tokens and buy mine! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: everything is for sale at the right price , i think :thumbsup:
Sadly I have the money but trying to save up a huge house deposit....boooooringgggg

Glad yours is doing well??
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Beedub » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:39 pm

Woots wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:33 pm
Beedub wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:27 pm
Woots wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:45 am I want one (again)
save up your beer tokens and buy mine! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: everything is for sale at the right price , i think :thumbsup:
Sadly I have the money but trying to save up a huge house deposit....boooooringgggg

Glad yours is doing well??
everything is well :-)
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Wondermike » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:25 pm

Now online

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/used ... e-bmw-z4-m
Autocar wrote:Used car buying guide: BMW Z4 M

As this is written, there are 35 BMW Z4 M Coupés and Roadsters for sale on leading classified websites.

They range in price from £12,500 for a 90,000-mile 2006 Roadster to £28,995 for a 24,000- mile 06-plate with the same body. The most expensive Coupé is a 2007 car with 16,000 miles, for £28,390.

The two versions may, at first glance, have the same specification, but the Coupé has slightly firmer dampers, a thicker rear anti-roll bar and slightly quicker steering. If that makes it sound sportier, the soft-top is actually lighter by some 15kg and comes with slightly more aggressive geometry settings.

The Coupé cost £41,285 new in 2006, the Roadster £42,950. Today, that differential has been turned on its head, with used Roadsters costing £3000 or so less than equivalent Coupés. If you are not going racing and have a sensitive back, the slightly more compliant Roadster could be the smarter buy. David Smitheram, author of the Essential Buyer’s Guide to the BMW Z4 M and an ARDS racing instructor, says his Roadster is as quick on a track as a Z4 M Coupé.

Around 1500 Roadsters and Coupés were sold during the Z4 M’s two-year life span from 2006 to 2008. Buyers were lured by the Chris Bangle styling and Boxster/Cayman - baiting M Power punch, courtesy of a 338bhp 3.2 straight-six that drives the rear wheels via a six-speed Getrag manual gearbox. It’s good for 0-62mph in less than five seconds.

A key thing to note if you’re on a tight budget is that the engine’s valve clearances require checking every second service. That will be £1200 at a BMW dealer or about £700 at an independent. On the other hand, the engine is relatively simple to work on, so if you’ve the tools and the know- how, you could do it yourself for around £200 in parts.

The Z4 M uses fly-by-wire throttle technology and VANOS variable timing. Issues with early M3s (which shared the same engine) using the VANOS system had been resolved by the time it came along, and the engine is largely bombproof – although there are isolated cases of conrod bearing failure (it has insanely high piston speeds) and broken engine bolts caused by the car’s unyielding suspension. You’ll also encounter dire warnings about Z4 Ms missing their 1200-mile running-in service. It’s something to do with the oil being a cutting-in specification, but Smitheram disputes this. He says the oil Z4 Ms left the factory with was the standard spec and that the issue was a warranty one rather than anything to do with engine health. As evidence, he points to his own car, which had its running-in service at 4000 miles and hasn’t missed a beat.

Whatever the truth, the Z4 M remains a thoroughbred, with the running costs to suit. Sellers describe it as a classic. That’s a seductive notion but, with 35 currently available across all price points, have your haggling boots laced up tight.

How to get one in your garage:

An expert’s view...

DAVID SMITHERAM, BMW CAR CLUB OF GREAT BRITAIN “I own a 2006 Roadster that’s done 55,000 miles. I work in motor racing and for many years saw how fast and reliable the old M3 E46s were and how easily they doubled as road and track cars. It got me thinking about the Z4 M, the last BMW sports car with a manual gearbox and a naturally aspirated straight-six. Mine’s a Roadster, so I’m bound to say it’s the one to buy, but since the car was designed as an open-top, it feels almost as stiff as the Coupé. Prices are softer too, and it’s more fun in the sun.”

Buyer beware...

ENGINE OIL and filter change every 7500 miles would be nice to see. Initial running-in service not as crucial as claimed as long as subsequent services are kept up. Inspection II service requires valve clearance check. Some cases of failed conrod bearings beyond 75k miles. Budget for toughened replacements as a precaution. If idle is lumpy, check and clean idlec ontrol valve. Check condition of engine mount bolts, which have been known to fracture.

SUSPENSION AND BRAKES Rear trailing arm bushes begin to wear at 50k miles, leading to uneven tyre wear; front bushes give less trouble. Rear springs can snap – fit thicker, lower Eibach replacements. Ride is unaffected because it’s already rock-hard. Brakes can feel dead but aftermarket pads fix it. Standard pads are okay on road but not for track use.

BODY On Roadsters, crouch down, find the roof drain holes and check for blockages. A wire coat hanger should clear obstructions. On Coupés, check for corrosion on the underside of the bootlid caused by water collecting in the scoop between it and the rear window. Poor accident repairs aside, it’s the only place Z4 Ms rot. Check rear centre brake light works (its securing screws are often too tight).

INTERIOR Expect wear on door handles, switches and driver’s side seat bolster, and check electric windows work (regulators can be troublesome).

Also worth knowing:

BMW protected the roadster’s roof motor in a watertight container (it’s on the passenger side of the car) but if the roof’s drain holes become blocked, water enters it and the motor packs up. Fortunately, those clever blokes at the BMW Car Club have a fix that involves relocating it out of harm’s way.

How much to spend:

£12,000-£13,495 - Private-sale 2006 Roadsters with 90k-plus miles start here, although guide auction price for average cars at this age is around £7000.

£13,995-£15,495 - Still strong money for 06- and 07-plate Roadsters with mileages around 65k.

£15,995-£17,495 - More 06-07 Roadsters with sub-50k mileages.

£17,500-£19,995 - Wide choice of 06-07 Coupés with around 70,000 miles.

£20,000-£25,000 - Includes a couple of main dealer cars – a 36k-mile 06 Coupé for £21,000 and a 34k-mile 07 Roadster for £22,990. Higher up the price ladder is a 16k-mile 08 roadster for £24,950.

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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Marlon » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:41 pm

Fishy Dave featuring heavily - the BMW Car Club gets a few plugs, but what about the Z4-Forum?
Only kidding, I found it an informative article - nice one Dave :thumbsup:
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Fishy Dave » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:01 am

Marlon wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:41 pm Fishy Dave featuring heavily - the BMW Car Club gets a few plugs, but what about the Z4-Forum?
Only kidding, I found it an informative article - nice one Dave :thumbsup:
Yup, in the bit about the roof motor relocation I gave him the full url of this forum, instead he put 'the clever blokes at BMWCC'?! I've never heard of anyone mention the roof motor relocation within the club, their forum is barely used. :headbang:
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Justino » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:33 pm

TomK wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:04 pm
eta I'm pretty sure the Z4M roadster is considerably stiffer than the E46M3 and no one ever seems to complain about that thing flexing. This stiffness thing is a bit of a red herring imo.
Except when the boot floor cracks due to the flexing! :wink:
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Z4M in Autocar Magazine

Post by Justino » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:41 pm

The Roadster v Coupe debate is always interesting. I think we have have debunked to a large extent the stiffness issue, as it is good to read the Roadster is twice as stiff as an E46 M3.

I bought a Roadster because I wanted best of both worlds in a 2nd car. In M spec, they are about of equal rarity, approx 500 each, the point about most other Z4's being roadsters is very valid, so makes the M Roadster feel less special/rare. That will change in time as more standard E85's disappear.

I didn't buy mine as an investment, but do feel that the world will wake up to the Z4m very soon as we go over to hybrid or electric cars which offer no driver enjoyment unless it is a Tesla, something the Z4m in either guise has in buckets, even in standard form.
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