Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

"M" Specific discussion
Post Reply
Z4M-2006
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 6208
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:53 am
Location: High Peak,Derbyshire.

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Z4M-2006 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:45 am

john-e89 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:18 pm
Z4M-2006 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:41 pm
So have they dropped all the big end shells out and checked the crank ???

Any pics of the spun shell ?

I have rebuilt numerous S54's over the years that have spun the bearing and the crank is ALWAYS marked.. Especially one that is knocked that hard...

Have they removed the cam cover too ?
They’ll likely to have shafted the con rods as well won’t they Gaz?

Sometimes it can do the rod too..

In my experience though it always marks the crank, sometimes not fatally and can be dressed back if customer doesn't want to spend ..

That said , I'm no specialist in the S54, just repaired them within my line of work..
But at the very least I would be checking for journal ovality... it's rare that with a prolonged knock that bad that you get away with it..

I had very good money that it was a top end fault on this car going off the video.. the noise frequency seemed way to fast for bottom end...
I have been wrong before though and I'm sure I will be wrong again

User avatar
T1berious
Member
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 6:34 am

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by T1berious » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:28 am

Update:

They had the cam covers off and I asked them to check the valve clearances while they were at it.
As I understand it (as stated by others) the oil pump was replaced rather than risk it causing another issue, totally got my vote.

Yes indeed, it was bottom end. I believe the crank was not damaged enough to warrant replacement but as someone who know next to nothing about the inner workings of the S54 Engine I'll have to trust the guy who's working on it :)

(Plus wouldn't they want to replace the crank if it was damaged?)

Plus I'm no where near the Garage so again I can't really pop in and want to see damaged parts and setup a web cam of the work being done (wouldn't that be cool?)

But I will ask about the crank today.

Cheers for all the input guys, the good news is (as I understand it) after this work she'll be good for another 100k! SWMBO is still wanting put the nails in though.....

T1b
Z4M all the toys except pdc (oh and I have the worlds crapiest stereo :(now with stubby!) E92 330 (bike transporter)

Online
User avatar
GuidoK
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2288
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:37 am

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by GuidoK » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:56 am

Z4M-2006 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:45 am

In my experience though it always marks the crank, sometimes not fatally and can be dressed back if customer doesn't want to spend ..
the size tolerance for the crank is quite small. about 0,015mm (0,6 thou ")
the noise frequency seemed way to fast for bottom end...
I thought it was rather slow for the bottom end (and quite fast for the head).
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | fully polybushed | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs Race Engineering clutch

User avatar
T1berious
Member
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 6:34 am

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by T1berious » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:30 pm

Well, to the guys who said it wasn't bottom end...

You were right!

Big ends replaced and noise remains. Engine now going to be removed and stripped.

Ouch!
Z4M all the toys except pdc (oh and I have the worlds crapiest stereo :(now with stubby!) E92 330 (bike transporter)

User avatar
mr wilks
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 16702
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:02 pm
Location: Lancs or Normandy , i don't mind which

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by mr wilks » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:34 pm

T1berious wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:30 pm
Well, to the guys who said it wasn't bottom end...

You were right!

Big ends replaced and noise remains. Engine now going to be removed and stripped.

Ouch!
Ouch indeed :cry: at least it will be all fresh when eventually gets diagnosed , almost kinda worrying the "specialist" is playing trial + error though :cry:
10 x Z4s owned :D

E86
E85
Grey///MR
3.0Si E85
E89 23i
3.0Si E85
E86
3.0Si E85
Imola///MR
current 35i Msport 6spd :driving:


Image


https://www.instagram.com/andybmwheels/

User avatar
Boris
Member
Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 10:23 am
Location: Durham

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Boris » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:09 pm

I didn't want to argue with "the specialists" but there was no way that was bottom end I'm afraid. :(

User avatar
Buckz
Member
Member
Posts: 843
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:00 am
Location: London

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Buckz » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:14 pm

and now the bill grows bigger because of extra work, these specialist imo do as much guess work as a forum does.
Image
Z4 Coupe/Style 224

User avatar
MrPT
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2735
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
Location: London, innit

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by MrPT » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:14 pm

T1berious wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:30 pm
Well, to the guys who said it wasn't bottom end...

You were right!

Big ends replaced and noise remains. Engine now going to be removed and stripped.

Ouch!
Heard very little in the way of useful diagnostic info from this garage so far. Before they remove the engine, you need to hear, explicitly:

- Bottom end bearings inspected - shells worn but not spun. Bottom end crank, rods etc undamaged. Shells replaced
(at this point you are still OK, economically, as bearing shell proactive maintenance is a good move and you have an invoice plus bill of materials that looks sensible)
- Top end inspected. Valve clearances within tolerance and/or adjusted back into spec. No damage to valve train, springs or seats, or excessive wear of cam followers or lobes

Even after all that you'd still want them take another look at ancillaries, Vanos etc before yanking out the engine.

Don't let them spend your money based on a hunch. That's our job. :D
Image
Z4MC: SG/Imola|CSLs|KWv3|Eventuri|OEM strut brace|Vagbremtechnic front BBK
Z4 2.5si: gone

User avatar
Ducklakeview
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4749
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Merseyside

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Ducklakeview » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:46 pm

Ducklakeview wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:49 pm
Definitely valvetrain related, sounds like just the one cam/follower knocking. I'd not be running that until it's been apart for inspection. At this point the cam/follower "may" be salvageable. Keep running it, and it won't..

Mike
Erm...

Sorry but I called top end on day one!

I really don't know how these "specialists" can call themselves so, if they can't get basic diagnosis right..

I feel for you OP..

And WTF do they want to pull the motor for?

Mike
Roof motor repairs/relocations and exhaust mods!
I can refurbish your VANOS and restore that mid-range grunt.
Contact me @ zed4mods@gmail.com

Z4M-2006
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 6208
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:53 am
Location: High Peak,Derbyshire.

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Z4M-2006 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:01 pm

Op....

Did they actually show you any of the shell bearings,or that there was anything actually wrong with the bottom end..?

Whats the situation with the misdiagnosis,do you have to pay ?

When you posted the video,it sounded just like cam follower wear to me as i said early on,but its so hard to diagnose a noise on the net.


Again its all speculation, but when building an S54 there are certain criteria that must be checked and checked again. Tolerances are fine and if build processes are not adhered to then you get problems down the line.

So........... Its either top end,which will be very easy to see,and if they have done the valve clearances as instructed then they should have seen it..

Or........ The crank is oval and they havent measured to check

Or......They havent used Plastique to size the bearings and fitted the wrong size

Or...... Used a damaged rod in the build,and its immediately damaged the bearing shell.


Good luck with it,i feel for you..

You aint the first or the last thats encountered these problems with the S54....

User avatar
Ducklakeview
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 4749
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Merseyside

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Ducklakeview » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:09 pm

Z4M-2006 wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:01 pm
..

Or........ The crank is oval and they havent measured to check

Or......They havent used Plastique to size the bearings and fitted the wrong size

Or...... Used a damaged rod in the build,and its immediately damaged the bearing shell.

As above, these are not only common sense when building ANY engine, they are "basic skills" in the field,

As such, if I was the OP I would be taking it elsewhere..

Mike
Roof motor repairs/relocations and exhaust mods!
I can refurbish your VANOS and restore that mid-range grunt.
Contact me @ zed4mods@gmail.com

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8579
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Beedub » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:10 pm

this is insane.
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

Online
User avatar
Ewazix
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 3474
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 5:30 pm
Location: Somerset

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by Ewazix » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:47 pm

Farcical, tough reading when someone is being mugged-off like this :cry:
2003 2.5SE, low miles, Sterling Grey, black leather, Colour coded 108's & Eagle F1A2, no stubby here! French fries intact, unmolested.

User avatar
pHilli0
Member
Member
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:21 am
Location: Hertford, Hertfordshire
Contact:

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by pHilli0 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:06 pm

T1berious wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:30 pm
Well, to the guys who said it wasn't bottom end...

You were right!

Big ends replaced and noise remains. Engine now going to be removed and stripped.

Ouch!
OMFG!!! The overwhelming view from your vid was top end. And the bottom end has been worked on and the noise is still there. I am pretty speechless. You must get evidence that the bottom end had failed, something otherwise are you being taken for a ride by someone guessing?
Is this where there was wear to the bearing shells, as they usually is, and they put the diagnosis on that?

TBH when I first had my engine diagnosed I spent the 1 hour labour charge at a MAIN F****ING DEALER who told me I just needed the clearances done, and never spotted the cams and followers were in a state and ticking. These issues seem to sometimes be missed, but this situation seems either a tragic mess or something else going on.
2006 Z4 ///M Coupe || Schrick CSL Cams | Eventuri | Brembo 6/4 & Pagid RS-29s | KW V3s | H&R ABRs | Stromung | ARC-8s | Corbeau Revolution | OEM Strut | ZHP | Stubby | CDV | RTAB | Evolve Map ||
http://www.phillynchracing.com/index.php/blog/

User avatar
jimmybell
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2349
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:16 pm
Location: SW London

Loud tappet like noises from Engine....

Post by jimmybell » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:31 pm

have they checked the follower fingers for wear?
Aston Martin V12 Vantage S - Hammerhead Silver, Manual, Lightweight Wheels, Exterior Carbon++, Carbon Buckets. AMR upgrades inc.
--
GONE: Z4 M Coupe- Imola, CSLs, OEM+ Exhaust
GOING: C63 AMG- Black, Performance Pack+, LSD, HK

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fishy Dave, gerryp, Gustavo7 and 15 guests