finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

"M" Specific discussion
User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:50 pm

LONG POST ALERT.


Ok well This finally happened....... What a suprise this was!! Firstly the cayman GT4 is a beast, out and out, from the factory comes with all the bits that a good chunk of us are trying to create , so well done porsche, awesome car, really and truly. Lets sit down, and break it down piece by piece!

So the drive started with me leaving porsche Centre in a low spec gt4 with buckets , red stictching and carbon interior pack, The car comes in a 85k, as you can attest and to ME at least is alot of money, porsche offered me an extended test drive, the weather was great so i grabbed the z4m out left it ready for when i got back , spent a really decent amount of time with the gt4 then ran the z4 on the same route..... About as good as it gets imo for a comparison. Please bare in mind this comparison is with my heavily modded car not the stock z4m, otherwise this would be a white wash! lol! The stock z4m is not in the same league as the gt4 bar the engine.

(z4m supercharger overview) ** disclaimer i picked the mean of the power graphs for my car, the highest its recorded on fuel with no water injection was 532hp with no Cats in place running a mix of 100 octane with shell 115octane race fuel,. **

Right before anyone starts, i think this is a far test considering the price difference between the cars currently, one could create a car like mine for substantially less than the purchase price of the Gt4, Also the z4m is one of sporting intent , similar size , N/A, manual , Both proper drivers cars, for those that aren't aware, My car is extensively modfied in pretty much every department using the best parts possible from light weight magnesium wheel nuts, to 1000hp rated driveshafts, the car currently runs around " 517hp pump fuel" from the s54 with a stage 2 Ess supercharger package with some further changes, additional oil and water cooling, Kw clubsport 3 way track suspension with solid uni-ball mountings caster and camber adjustments currently set to track bias with additional re-informance for the chassis all round, Rose jointed camber arms, solid bushings everywhere possible including engine and gearbox mountings from VT competition range, the list is pretty extensive suspension wise nothing hasn't be uprated, and same for the engine setup, brakes are AP racing 6 pot up front in special order enamel Red, 4 pot rear, pagid track pads all round, car is currently running semi slick road tyres, performance in pretty much every department is ..... top level (or so i thought but this is about to be put to the test) and in a totally oem looking package, its a very difficult car to move on from but one that i definitely would if the right thing came along.... This is where the gt4 comes in.

Initial thoughts . Cayman.

Ok first thing you notice with the cayman is those buckets, wow, they are lovely, truly special... you place your bum in he middle and swing your legs over, the carbon side painfully cuts into your leg, once in the seat. PERFECT( ALOT of wear on the seat showing on this 3.5k mile car the top layer of leather literally rubbed away) . The seating position is low, either side you see the trade mark raised headlight sections , great view... So you look around the cabin and it feels clinical, and not very special in this cars case, the materials are top level, the finish is top level, but the interior itself is bland on this low spec car, sat nav looks dated already imo I'm starting to prefer these new cars that hide them away when not in use... Look up to see an alcantara head lining, the buttons as expected have that well oiled porsche feel, and the smell of that leather, wonderful, anyone thats owned a new porsche will know what I'm talking about. Press the clutch , very firm , the gear shift is TIGHT, very short throw and heavy, such a nice clutch and gear setup, and one thats instantly shows up the z4m. The bite point easy to find and Zero slack in the drive-train anywhere, its one of the best I've used! Twist the key and the engine barks into life, its very loud for a stock car, as loud as my RPI setup car on idle no doubt. The engine sounds special.. busy, mechanical, serious. The s54 at idle sounds really complicated, mechanical and full of character with its race derived solid valve train. The z4 feels dated inside but i prefer the "style" of the dashboard and clocks, the quality of materials is in a different world as expected and plenty of creaks and rattles are present in the little z4 and its decade old shell, but in this case, in low mile form fights back with that steering wheel, one of my fave pieces of the z4m that betters that of the gt4 , that thick rimmed firm wheel, not cluttered just a horn , some lovely ///M stitch work and a couple volume buttons, the gt4 has a thin rimmed item in alcantara already wearing badly with cheap looking and feel silver and black plastic sections. This gt4 also has the leather dash with red stitching, LOVELY, otherwise bar the materials both have a similar driver focused , minimal feel, both feel SMALL into days world of ever growing cars.


The Details!

Right off the bat the gt4 feels tight, and full of intent. The engine barking away dramatically, the brakes BITE instantly from cold, and wow are they huge matching the aftermarket AP setup on my car for sheer drama and size, Both cars come squealing to a halt, visually the AP callipers are larger and have better finish. The Gt4 has an electric rack which does NOT have the feel of the z4m hydraulic setup, buts very close, has lovely weight but the steering FEEL is better on the z4m no doubt, The gt4 wheels tracks DEAD straight over bumps and thumps really firmly thud through the car, both these cars share the same linear spring rates both suspension feel Very similar in the way they deal with the bumps, The KW CS having much more adjustment in them and looking a higher quality with their stainless steel cases and external outboard tanks, The cayman has a height adjustable setup but no rebound or bump adjustment.. However P got it right here, the car rides wonderfully over the bumps, manages that rare trick of feeling firm as hell but really well damped, Funnily Both cars have this weird thing where the dampers run out of travel and off curbs etc the wheel sits in mid air!! lol! i guess.... because RACECAR!!

OK so lets step this up.... the engine on the gt4 was for me a disappointment, it just never FEELS like its getting going, the s54 HANDS down is the better engine, its the better feeling engine, its the better responsive engine, the 3.8 Carrera engine seems like its stuck in treacle, the revs build slowly then at 4k its like it hits V-tec mode and goes for a lunge that seems to painfully drag on forever, it makes ALOT of noise and doesnt really feel that FAST, this was my first real disappointment in the gt4, it needed 420hp... i would really put money that an s54 with a decent airbox n tune, would run this dead even. Redline is at 7400ish and with the long ass weird gearing it just feels lathargic , the z4 ratios are much better , and the engine imo shows up the gt4, the s54 is wonderful, and its only when you start comparing it to this type of company back to back that you really appreciate that!! The way the s54 piles on and revs out is genuinely something, you can see why P is now running that solid valve-train on the new GT3... its a PITA but man does it let an engine sing differently! Now combine the blower on the s54, and it only gets worse..... The s54 is definitely a match for this 3.8 stock for stock, with the blower??? gt4 cant even begin to live with it, then again ... I'm pretty certain in a straight line it would outdrag the gt3 by some margin, 517hp, a gobful of Tq. So s54 over the 3.8 unit all day long, and next week too.

Handling..... The gt4 is tight, responsive, and as i said about the drivetrain the steering just has no slack, the tiniest of inputs has a change on the direction of the car, The ride with the 20 inch wheels is better or as well as my car on its 18s , the way the car changes direction is again, just wow! it feels like a race car, this particular car wearing sticky dunlops , grip levels feel nuts... however..... as i approach a familiar roundabout i lap it 3 or 4 times slowly building up the speed , and the gt4 has UNDERSTEER by the bucket load, maybe it was the tyre temps? maybe it was the setup of the car, but it understeered way more than i would expect, I'm sure this can be dialled out however. My car with its cheapo nankang Semi slicks puts up a real good fight but cant match the handling performance at 10/10ths or whatever this route put the cars through ( maybe the tyres just cant match the dunlops??,) , and i think the power actually doesnt help either, it feels very close to death and spins the tyres deep into 3rd gear in this cool weather, However once the tyres are warm, your settled into a touch more body roll which i like and need as i can really nudge upto the limits of the z4, the car understeers Less and changes direction very nearly as keenly ( I'm running a very track biased Geo with -2.7 neg camber ) it feels smaller and as nimble, i think the gt4 would struggle to loose you on a more open circuit , i think on something abit tighter with fast direction changes and traction advantages of the mid engine layout , the gt4 would move ahead imo..... The gt4 just feeling more tied down and together ultimately.

Once up to temp the brakes on the gt4 are nothing short of mind bending, as good as my APs with its mega bucks pagids which is some compliment, they get better and better the harder they are used, you can brake right upto the threshold of lockup and hold it their, the brakes supplied on the gt4 bone stock are 10/10... the AP setup on my car is again one of the best brake setups I've ever used and by far the best on any car I've owned ( The same family caliper used in the z4m application is the same caliper mclaren use on the 650s / 570s from AP racing ) , in this department their is no winner, if anything, i think the gt4 had a slightly better pedal feel which i didn't think was possible but i "think" it does, the moment you touch the pedal it bites! When i brake hard in my z4m from high speed its almost like the car wonders around and hunts , the gt4 stops exactly the same , but seemingly without the fuss and pulls up dead even! really impressive! Either are insane, I've personally pulled these APs up glowing red hot and still they perform, you can trust them lap after lap after lap, without testing the gt4 further in this department i cant really call it.

finally, a gentle cruise back to the dealership after some brilliant time behind the wheel, and what a comfortable place it is to be, with the stock seats in their this is easily DD material, its comfy, feels quality, my z4m never being able to almost switch off, after a stint this long in the z4, i just want to put it away, its tiring and on it ALL the time, the gt4, dial down the dampers and exhaust and its a lovely place to be! The gt4 is a wonderful machine, totally wonderful ... but imo its not worth 85k, anyone out their moving from a bone stock z4m this will feel like the PERFECT upgrade, but if you made some decent suspension, braking and some minor power upgrades i think you will be very pleasantly surprised by this comparison, The margin between them close in too many areas or should i say not the LEAP ahead you'd hope?? , I think the bubble will burst on these, i don't think they are special enough against the rest of the GT range and i think the new RS model will cause this to really come down to the 70s maybe high 60s which is still very impressive.....

For me as a direct comparison to my own vehicle, the old girl puts up a convincing fight , and manages to out Raw it, out pace it, out shout it, the drive train on the gt4 is better, the clutch and gearbox feel made using mine feel almost sloppy which is painful to type especially as my car is so fresh with it's 12600 miles, but theirs no other way to put it.... The stock z4m seats LOOK lovely but they are poor at holding you in place, the seating position in both cars is perfect however, pretty much identical in feel and how you sit , the interior on the gt4 another let down on this particular car, bland, and feeling very generic and dated already, the z4 interior feels cheap and plastic but as i said before i think the "style" is better, thats where it ends for the z4m , inside the gt4 is better in every other way bar the actual steering wheel..... Steering feel z4m takes it, that said the gt4 is as good, handling overall goes to the gt4 but again alot closer than you'd imagine both running track tyres and suspension the feel was very similar, for me the gt4 just had grip that my car couldn't match ! Engine wise , sorry but s54 takes it hands down, their is not one place bar the sound that the 3.8 impresses me over the s54, the s54 is a monster and delivers it with proper character, this is the z4m's Ace in its hand.... So their you have it, imo for me the DREAM of the gt4 is over, just no where near enough of a step up in any real area to warrant such a big outlay, i suspect for me, it would have to be a gt3 and ..... i cant afford one of those!

lastly, Porsche killed it with the gt4 its everything we are trying to make out of z4ms, straight out the box , at list price, it is a stonker, at the elevated price points, its not worth the money, its just not imo..... its probably one of the best factory sports cars I've driven with no alterations , its got everything on their ready to go, and at a guess, with some minor tweaks will be on a another level again...

If anyone else has a comparison they'd like to offer up.... id love to read your thoughts.


Sorry if this is full of typo's i will correct it, but wanted to get this all down while it was relatively fresh, ill stick some pics up of the car shortly!
Last edited by Beedub on Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:28 pm, edited 11 times in total.
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:53 pm

the car in question.....
Attachments
20170920_130253.jpg
20170920_130253.jpg (303.41 KiB) Viewed 592 times
20170920_130258.jpg
20170920_130258.jpg (319.15 KiB) Viewed 592 times
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:13 am

also one last thing, the car doesnt look aggressive enough either, i think they really needed some further aggression to the styling......

that said the z4m well..... no one even seems to know they even did an ///M version so i wont comment further...
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:18 am

and lastly, a couple of mine.
Attachments
fullsizeoutput_58a.jpeg
fullsizeoutput_58a.jpeg (217.94 KiB) Viewed 579 times
fullsizeoutput_592.jpeg
fullsizeoutput_592.jpeg (467.98 KiB) Viewed 579 times
fullsizeoutput_594.jpeg
fullsizeoutput_594.jpeg (260.37 KiB) Viewed 579 times
fullsizeoutput_596.jpeg
fullsizeoutput_596.jpeg (341.23 KiB) Viewed 579 times
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

nickw6666
Member
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:00 am
Location: Hampshire

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by nickw6666 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:55 am

Wow - great piece Beedub. Very interesting.

I hadn't realised your Z4M is so heavily modified.

I was interested in Cayman GT4 but not at current prices and I agree with you, I think the bubble will burst, especially as for £111K you can now order a manual GT3 Touring with near 500bhp. Big money I know but the GT4 is as well.

Fascinating that you think your AP Racing brakes are a match for the GT4 brakes, which look weapons grade! Then again why not.

Really good to hear that the S54 is a match for the GT4 engine in character in not outright power. I'm not surprised by this though a recently drove a 997.2 C2S with 385bhp 3.8, identical to GT4, and I thought it was a bit refined! In fact my 3.8 997.1 M97 engine has more character.

I was at Spa a couple of months ago and met a guy there with a GT4 and his buddy with a modded Z4MC with AP Racing brakes and modified suspension, and they reckoned that the GT4 was a track ready weapon but that the Z4M with mods could get close. Which is essentially what Beedub is saying.

The slightly worrying thing on the GT4 is the noise level. It's very loud and I understand that it can fail noise tests at quite a few UK tracks.

A Porsche OPC salesman who privately owns a Lotus Exige said to me recently that the GT4 is too loud for the track, and too low for the road! The front splitter keeps grinding on UK sleeping policeman...!

Thanks for the really interesting post Beedub. It makes me think I'd rather stay with my Z4MC than go chasing a Cayman GT4, especially at £85k. Even at £65K I'd think very hard etc.
2007 Imola Red Z4M coupe. Owned for 10 years.
Other current cars;
2006 BMW 335i SE Coupe - Titan Silver, Black Leather
2007 Porsche 911 997 Carrera 2S. Meteor Grey, 19" SportClassic Wheels

raiets
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:58 pm

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by raiets » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:35 am

Very interesting read Beedub! A very close friend has a GT4 and has been kind enough to let me drive it a couple of times. My thoughts are very much along the same lines as yours. The engine being a bit of a let down in comparison to the rest of the package, and compared to the S54. The gearshift and pedal weights are just gorgeous though, I thought the improvement of fitting stiffer gearbox and engine mounts had transformed the Ms gearshift, but its still woeful in direct comparison. I have since driving it, been thinking about getting bucket seats and refurbishing the steering wheel, which I think says it all about the areas of the GT4 that really differentiate the two.

I could go on, but Beedub has really said it all. Prices were a bit mad, but are settling now, it will be interesting to see how the 'RS' and indeed time changes values.

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:12 am

nickw6666 wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:55 am
Wow - great piece Beedub. Very interesting.

I hadn't realised your Z4M is so heavily modified.

I was interested in Cayman GT4 but not at current prices and I agree with you, I think the bubble will burst, especially as for £111K you can now order a manual GT3 Touring with near 500bhp. Big money I know but the GT4 is as well.

Fascinating that you think your AP Racing brakes are a match for the GT4 brakes, which look weapons grade! Then again why not.

Really good to hear that the S54 is a match for the GT4 engine in character in not outright power. I'm not surprised by this though a recently drove a 997.2 C2S with 385bhp 3.8, identical to GT4, and I thought it was a bit refined! In fact my 3.8 997.1 M97 engine has more character.

I was at Spa a couple of months ago and met a guy there with a GT4 and his buddy with a modded Z4MC with AP Racing brakes and modified suspension, and they reckoned that the GT4 was a track ready weapon but that the Z4M with mods could get close. Which is essentially what Beedub is saying.

The slightly worrying thing on the GT4 is the noise level. It's very loud and I understand that it can fail noise tests at quite a few UK tracks.

A Porsche OPC salesman who privately owns a Lotus Exige said to me recently that the GT4 is too loud for the track, and too low for the road! The front splitter keeps grinding on UK sleeping policeman...!

Thanks for the really interesting post Beedub. It makes me think I'd rather stay with my Z4MC than go chasing a Cayman GT4, especially at £85k. Even at £65K I'd think very hard etc.

Hey bud, definitely have a read again on the engine thoughts, their is zero comparison the engines are a country mile apart , one feels and is a proper purpose built sporting engine, one is a generic nothing special , the only area where the gt4 in the engine department wins is the stock sound... As i mentioned early, the gt4 is not a fast feeling car, it sounds fast but its very lethargic , alot of show, not so much go!! engine is no where near what it needs to be...

And Re the brakes , lets be honest the full retail of the AP setup is 5k!!! so id expect it to be able to hold it own in this area, they are way way way more than the car needs and even with over 500hp , they still haul the car down with no issue, however both cars feel massively over braked....
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:13 am

raiets wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:35 am
Very interesting read Beedub! A very close friend has a GT4 and has been kind enough to let me drive it a couple of times. My thoughts are very much along the same lines as yours. The engine being a bit of a let down in comparison to the rest of the package, and compared to the S54. The gearshift and pedal weights are just gorgeous though, I thought the improvement of fitting stiffer gearbox and engine mounts had transformed the Ms gearshift, but its still woeful in direct comparison. I have since driving it, been thinking about getting bucket seats and refurbishing the steering wheel, which I think says it all about the areas of the GT4 that really differentiate the two.

I could go on, but Beedub has really said it all. Prices were a bit mad, but are settling now, it will be interesting to see how the 'RS' and indeed time changes values.
The z4m needs some properly nice seats and this will go along way of adding the secure feeling, and after driving the gt4..... it really does need a Shift kit of some kind, the shifter feels nice on its own but when put up against the gt4 it felt sloppy!!

Glad to se everyones thoughts on these two beasts.....
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

User avatar
MrPT
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2683
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 pm
Location: London, innit

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by MrPT » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:47 am

Perfect breakfast read, thanks Beedub. :thumbsup:

Seems to tally with most back to back comparisons I’ve read. Reminds me of some of the comments in this vid:



But then you watch another vid and £110k for the 911T starts to seem like good value again:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYMDZhcDgCy

:driving:
Image
Z4MC: SG/Imola|CSLs|KWv3|Eventuri|OEM strut brace|Vagbremtechnic front BBK
Z4 2.5si: gone

Babw
Member
Member
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 5:08 pm

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Babw » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:41 am

Nice writeup.

I'm jealous of your garage setup!

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:39 pm

Thanks guys, the Feel of these two cars was crazily similar , one of the best changes to the z4 that added a real sense of "tied" down was the engine mounts.... the car behaves really differently and feels very different with these in place.

The cayman basically feels like a money no object thrown at it z4m with the added benefit of that mid engined stability, such a nice factory package, but overall was... i think not the event i had hoped for!
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:17 pm

Also for anyone interested the stock cayman gt4 has a spring rate of 400lbs , exactly the same as my CS spec suspension, the CS has additional helper springs , the gt4 does not, the gt3 models do... the top mounts on the gt4 are solidly mounted, as per my car, both cars are running near solid engine mounts and the vibrations can be felt in both vehicles.
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

raiets
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:58 pm

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by raiets » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:28 pm

Beedub wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:17 pm
Also for anyone interested the stock cayman gt4 has a spring rate of 400lbs , exactly the same as my CS spec suspension, the CS has additional helper springs , the gt4 does not, the gt3 models do... the top mounts on the gt4 are solidly mounted, as per my car, both cars are running near solid engine mounts and the vibrations can be felt in both vehicles.
I'm running KW CSs and have the vibratechnics engine mounts and stiffer gearbox mounts (can't remember what). The overall feel of GT4 to z4 is very similar, but the damping is tuned very well for the road! Better than I have mine setup at the moment.

The gearbox mount I think ended up being what transmitted the most vibrations into the car, not in a bad way. But the engine mounts have little to no effect in this respect.

FD3S
Member
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 11:18 pm

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by FD3S » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:18 pm

Nice to know that with some 17000 mods on our beautiful cars, you can save 85.000 and avoid buying a P car.. :D

User avatar
Beedub
Lifer
Lifer
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm
X-Box live gamer tag: be03dub
Location: Sutton Coldfield

finally.. Stock gt4 Vs Highly modded z4m, back to back !

Post by Beedub » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:22 pm

FD3S wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:18 pm
Nice to know that with some 17000 mods on our beautiful cars, you can save 85.000 and avoid buying a P car.. :D

looks kinda painful when you put it like that, as lets be honest their amount of changes thats made to the z4m to get it to compete with the big boys, their isn't much bmw left...... :?
Ti silver Z4m Roadster... Homing in on a decade of ownership.... my absolute pride and joy.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], dannytheduck1985, maccy and 17 guests