Would you vote differently now?

[PerryGunn]

If we remain will there never be another recession? Doubtful
If we leave will there never be another recession ? Doubtful
Its simply the rollercoaster of life

Precisely... plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose - although perhaps I shouldn't say that as, if we're leaving, we'll probably have to give up the right to use French epigrams....

[original guvnor]

Look Tom stop assuming we haven't been affected by the post-financial crash era. I haven't had a pay rise in 10 years that has been at or above the rate of inflation and several years with none at all. I haven't had a bonus for 6 of the last 7 years so in real terms I am 15-20% at least less well off than I was back in 2007. My house is barely worth what I paid for it 11 years ago despite spending £132k in mortgage payments in that time. I've set my own limited company up in my spare time two years ago to try and make up some of the difference so stop telling me I don't know what it's like to have some economic hardship. Your generation isn't known as the snowflakes without reason.

Lost all credibility after that line. I'd put you in the shoes of an average 20yo and you'd be crying with house at ridiculous levels, uni debts 40-50k and even after uni you'd struggle to get a perm job. It's a joke.

Glad you've got that off your chest? Nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit.

Ironically if you believe we should've stayed in house price rises would be even greater because you believe by coming out the economy will suffer and inward investment will dwindle.

[mr wilks]

Look Tom stop assuming we haven't been affected by the post-financial crash era. I haven't had a pay rise in 10 years that has been at or above the rate of inflation and several years with none at all. I haven't had a bonus for 6 of the last 7 years so in real terms I am 15-20% at least less well off than I was back in 2007. My house is barely worth what I paid for it 11 years ago despite spending £132k in mortgage payments in that time. I've set my own limited company up in my spare time two years ago to try and make up some of the difference so stop telling me I don't know what it's like to have some economic hardship. Your generation isn't known as the snowflakes without reason.

Lost all credibility after that line. I'd put you in the shoes of an average 20yo and you'd be crying with house at ridiculous levels, uni debts 40-50k and even after uni you'd struggle to get a perm job. It's a joke.

Im not sticking my oar in here for Og but you do make some sweeping generalisations about the country that just aren't true .
My son is 25yrs old , qualified plumber / heating engineer on £29k .
He never went to Uni , has no debt & is about to leave home after saving a decent deposit & buying a first home with his girlfriend . A brand new 3 bed detached in a nice area ( we live in Lancashire but that's to our benefit imo not a detriment) .
His mortgage will be £130k - just under £490 per month fixed for 10 yrs , , not a one off as he also has a cousin a year younger who trained & works at RollsRoyce Barnoldswick , he left home last year again no debts from Uni & first house was £185k which he had 10% deposit saved .
Lifes what you make it & for those on average salaries in the south with high debts & facing high property prices the answer isnt a tough one is it

[PaulG]

Lost all credibility after that line. I'd put you in the shoes of an average 20yo and you'd be crying with house at ridiculous levels, uni debts 40-50k and even after uni you'd struggle to get a perm job. It's a joke.

The only affect that membership of the EU has on house prices is upwards. 5 million people (roughly) net immigration since 1997. Not all from the EU, but around half. They all need housing somewhere. Economics of supply and demand. I agree it isn't that simple, but its not something that gets much attention. I used to work for a housebuilder in the IT dept. I worked for a while on the land valuation system and the cost of new housing is the land. I was amazed at how cheap it is to build a 5 bed detached house once the land is bought and groundworks are complete. The systems worked back from how much the houses could be sold for, costs of everything (even down to toilet hire and the crane to deliver the big mortar mixers), add in a very reasonable target profit (less than 20%) and the land value came out. For some very small pieces of land, the prices were astronomical - in 7 figures.

As for university tuition fees, I agree but with a caveat. The aim of 50% of 18/19 year olds going to Uni is absurd. Look at some of the courses - Football Studies (University of Solent and University of Bedfordshire for example) - Sports Management (Golf) University of Bournemouth. I could go on. What the hell sort degrees are these? How can a country afford for half of the population to do a degree in often useless subjects? Go back to the old system of 10-15% doing a funded degree in 'hard' subjects - STEM, medicine etc. that will be useful for the country. All the other courses can support themselves. If they really do add the value they claim and have employers demanding their skills, the employers / kids can justify the costs.

The daughter of a friend of ours recently had her 21st. We were invited to the party and had the 'experience' of listening to some of her friends. One had just finished a degree in music (or 'noise' as she described it). She had no intention of ever repaying the loan as she never expected to earn more than the level to start repaying. She was not the only one. The friends daughter had no idea what she wanted to do at 18, so did a degree to fill in the time. She still has no idea so is going to do a masters to take up another year or two. Should the taxpayer really fund her 'search for herself'?

[Dav the wheel nut]

I am like most young people with many years ahead of me

I wouldn't put money on that if I was you

[Boris]

I can only speak for myself but at present things are not hard.

I've been in business for nearly 40 years (and still are) and 2008/9/10/11/12/13 were the worst I've seen and that was nothing to do with Brexit.

I import lots from Europe and the far east the £/$ and £/Euro exchange rates have affected things somewhat but because everyone knows the reason for the increases customers were accepting of the new rates, lots of these have now eased anyway after the initial panic.

Most or all of the problems are caused by panic not any sound reasoning they panic because of the unknown and the banks are the worst culprits.

Do people really thing the Germans wont want to sell the UK their cars for instance after we leave we are the biggest market in the world for German cars.

Just look a the stock exchange its at the highest rate for years so something is working right! my pension is making me loads of money thanks you.

The only problem is the unknown as soon as we are actually out the country will boom, its a big world out there the end of the world does not stop at Europe.

Any way that's my two peneth, I know not everyone will see it my way but thats how I see it.

PS the main reason for me voting out by the way was the loss of control we as Brits have over decisions that affect the UK, especially when a court in another country can overrule our High Court; then that's time to say OUT.

Cheers

Nev

[Smurfalot]

Out out out.
I'm 43 (just lol) with a mortgage I have no hope of ever paying off..
Subsidising a benefits system that should be destroyed..
Working in a country that pays low wages, because the tax credits system is wrong..
Having a bunch of unelected idiots in Europe telling me what's best for me..
A European judicial system, that only benefits Germany and France..
Flooded with immigrants after the knackered welfare systems benefits..

Half of what is wrong with this country, is due to Europe. The other half is down the the politically correct lefties, that helped drag our country to its knees under the last labour government, and who would allow it to all happen again under the muppet Corbin.
We cannot sustain this country, without either putting up tax big time, to pay for what everyone wants, or we scrap some of the benefits like tax credits, and force the employers to pay a proper wage.
The young voters that the Labour Party attract, seem to want everything for nothing, and they want it now. Impossible.
Rant over.

[Hellequin]

I voted to Remain and I would vote the same now.

[volumex65]

out

[original guvnor]

I reflected on this debate last night and this morning. I've never had any issue with people who voted to Remain. It's a democracy and if you believe in the EU project then that's fine as I said in one of my earlier comments. Many of my good friends did. I understand why London voted massively in favour of Remain. The EU has been very good for Londoners on the whole and the economy in London has been booming for years off the back of the financial centre and massive government infrastructure investment. All I ask in return is for people to respect why people voted to leave but there is seldom any respect shown. Instead it's usually a sneering metropolitan middle-class voice telling you that you're one or all of "crazy", "racist", "bigot", "thick", "fascist", "immigrant hater" etc etc. Maybe people just don't believe in a federal Europe and the concept of open borders. There's seldom any "right" or "wrong" in these things - 10 years down the line I doubt we'll be able to say categorically that one was better than the other. It is simply do you believe in greater political and financial integration and greater loss of sovereignty or do you not.

My last words on this thread are directed at those sneering metropolitans - if you want to understand why the country voted for Brexit get off your arse and come outside of your metropolitan ivory towers and come and see for yourself. Come to the North Notts coalfields and see first hand how the EU has done nothing for it at all except flood an area with already high unemployment and a low-skilled workforce and no regeneration investment with even more cheap labour. That's why 71% voted to leave. Come and see for yourself. I dare you. Come and speak to local people and try to understand why they voted the way they did instead of calling them crazy.

We have been big net contributors to the EU pot for decades. Where has that investment gone? To Poland, Latvia, Spain, Portugal, East Germany (really???) etc. Nothing of any impact has come to the poorest, most needy areas in this country. In the meantime even more money has been poured into London making our economy one of the most unbalanced in the world. London gets Crossrail 1, HS1, HS2, Crossrail 2, Heathrow 3rd runway, Heathrow Express, massive tube upgrades and expansion. Contrast that with the northern powerhouse which gets just £300m for its rail network, and the East Midlands which gets electrification of the railways scrapped.

So if I was a bit aggressive yesterday perhaps you can understand why. We're sick and tired of people not respecting our vote and not listening.

[markalp]

Ahh the youth of today, to good to work at the bottom of the ladder, and expect everything to be given to them on a silver platter.

[Nictrix]

This whole thread is hilarious

[PeterZed]

I voted out and would still again , yes the wrong side of 60 now but still have a mortgage after working since I was 16, I used my experience and life skills to come to my decision and sorry if the young uns don't agree with me and the democratic process that arrived at this decision.

[john-e89]

I agree with Original guvnor, the Union is pissed simply because of what they’ll not be getting for free now and having to give next to nothing back. I see this as a chance for the UK to stride out and start trading with the rest of the world without one hand tied behind our backs. Sure it’s not going to be easy but we must learn to stop in fighting and get on with being the GREAT Britain we once were, and still can be. We mustn’t let that idiot Corbyn and his bunch of leftist Pratt’s give our money away to anyone who can’t be arsed to get out of bed and go to work. The country needs immigration sure, but for OUR benefit, OUR rules, OUR democracy and sovreingty, and in return you’ll get a decent standard of living in a nice country run by US. I hear restaurant owners etc, saying with out migrant workers they’ll have to shut shop because our people won’t work, that has to change, the benefit system has to change to make it better to work than not, it has to start somewhere so why not now? Corbyn would just keep handing money to idle scroungers and borrow the money to do it, where’s the sense in that? We have to change the ideology of people, it’s the only way to return to long term prosperity. Bitching and fighting and political point scoring is bullshit, this is a chance to make a change, we MUST grab it and do it correctly. Business needs to go out and sell to the free world, it’s there for the taking, we survived very nicely up tip joining in ‘73, we’ve not had much out of it except a stranglehold on our business and a Union that doesn’t give a damn about us, only our money.

All easy to say but it can be done, the leaders just need the balls to do it, it’s a wonderful opportunity to put ourselves back on top, let’s hope sense prevails.

[RickRob]

I voted out, but having seen the total ineptitude of the British "negotiators" and the monkeys they're supposed to be negotiating with, I am seriously wondering where we're going and if we'll ever get there.

As such if there was another referendum I think that I would vote remain, although it would be a close call.

Interesting that this poll is currently sitting at exactly 50:50. If I remember correctly the original poll on here was significantly towards leaving.