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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Discuss problems you have had or are having with your Z4
JimBob78
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by JimBob78 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:20 pm

Too much toe out on the front will make it dart about if I remember my Gran Turismo settings correctly! Has anyone tried increasing toe in to rectify this?

carl2990

Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by carl2990 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:11 am

Morning Guys!

I'm having the same issue on my Z. 48500m, 57 plate 3.0si.

I've had the wishbones and bushes replaced for Meyle HD, and also the rollbar drop links. Rollbar bushes are in great condition and no knocking from the rear, so I'd guess the RTABs don't need replacing.

I'm also on none-run flat (Goodyear Eagle F1). Tyre pressures are as per the PSI ratings inside the driver door panel.

When I had the bushes and wishbones replaced, everything is a lot tighter. Steering is incredibly precise now

...but...

I still get the steering pulling left/right a few degrees. Mostly left but I'd guess this is the camber on the road.

Tracking next, but I had the tracking checked before having my wishbones done and it was spot on.

Any other suggestions of what to check? I've had most mechanical things changed, could it be a sensor?

Rich8
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Rich8 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:48 pm

I think the general consensus is that it's a "feature" of the eps.
Was BMWs first stab at electronic power steering I believe and far from perfected.

Seems to be more prevalent with larger wheels/wider tyres. More threads from people with 3ltrs (so most often larger wheels/wider tyre setups) than smaller engine (usually smaller wheeled) owners. Have read more than one thread where people have changed to 17s from larger wheels and its reduced or gone away.

I'd rather put up with it and keep my 108s :D

firebobby
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by firebobby » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:56 pm

Rich8 wrote:I think the general consensus is that it's a "feature" of the eps.
Was BMWs first stab at electronic power steering I believe and far from perfected.

Seems to be more prevalent with larger wheels/wider tyres. More threads from people with 3ltrs (so most often larger wheels/wider tyre setups) than smaller engine (usually smaller wheeled) owners. Have read more than one thread where people have changed to 17s from larger wheels and its reduced or gone away.

I'd rather put up with it and keep my 108s :D
I changed to non run flats on my 17", that made a difference, then I changed to 18" and NRF and increased the tyre pressures, which made an even bigger difference to the handling.
BMW Z4 30i 2003 auto 107's Whippy Toledo Blue
Beige M sport seats, wood dash
Toyota MR2 NA 1995
Triumph GT6 1972 (project)
Land Rover Discovery 1994 TDI (Tow car)
Mini 1000 1981

Rich8
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Rich8 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:32 pm

Bigger difference to the handling in general?
Or specifically an improvement in the odd nudging that appears at 60 ish that is believed to be the eps being a bit glitchy?

Granted, there's always one or two exceptions - just commenting on how it appears from the many posts describing this (which my coupe also suffers with, albeit not all that badly compared to some accounts).

firebobby
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by firebobby » Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:43 pm

More the twitchy handling really, my car was terrible/dangerous on the run flats, it would dance about on a white line or imperfection in the road. This got better when I removed the RF's from my 17's, but was much improved when I fitted the 18's with NRF's. :)
BMW Z4 30i 2003 auto 107's Whippy Toledo Blue
Beige M sport seats, wood dash
Toyota MR2 NA 1995
Triumph GT6 1972 (project)
Land Rover Discovery 1994 TDI (Tow car)
Mini 1000 1981

carl2990

Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by carl2990 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:21 pm

Afternoon,

So I tried another way to diagnose the twitchy steering, pull fuse 22 on the power steering!

Down the same road with the fuse in or out, I can still feel the steering wheel tug left and right. With no power steering, it is slightly more damped, I assume this is because the motor isn't also acting upon the steering column.

So it probably isn't anything to do with the EPS system itself (good...as that would be expensive :thumbsdown: ), I'm thinking now it could be the tie rod ends? (Wishbones & lollipop bushes already replaced). Going to also try adjusting the tyre pressures but it feels more mechanical than that. I don't want to get a full 4 wheel alignment done until I've found the source of the problem and fixed it, before I had the wishbones replaced, the tracking was spot on and still had this issue.

http://www.bmwclub.lv/files/06_E85_Chas ... cs.001.pdf

Page 10 here shows there is a thrust member which damps any the steering rack. Could this have any part in causing the steering twitch?

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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Marius » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:17 pm

esp doesn't really do much until you start sliding . you can drive at any speed with esp off and you not gonna notice the difference .Check rear arm bushes and get alignment done .

carl2990

Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by carl2990 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:27 pm

I mean the electronic power steering, not electronic stability control :thumbsup: :rofl: lots of acronyms!

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adam1985
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by adam1985 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:34 am

Hi Carl you made any further progress with this?
57 BMW 3.0si sport Coupe, Carbon Black, Bilstein B12 Suspension, CSL reps & style 339s for winter - Current
10 Skoda Fabia mk2 vRS, Rallye Green, Black Roof, Black Gigaro Alloys - Gone
08 Fiat Grande Punto Dynamic Sport, Red, Dual Sunroof - Gone

carl2990

Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by carl2990 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:42 pm

Unfortunately not. I've spent a few hundred now on new tyres, wishbones, bushes. Luckily the tracking check was free!

Until I'm more certain what the problem is, I'm putting up with it.

Spoken to a few mechanics and a few Z4 owners, some say it's down to the tyre width, tyre pressures, bad bushes etc.

Having a look on E46 forums, they mention the steering 'guibo' (steering coupler).

I think on every car, each has 1 or more of these issues, always leading to the same effect. This is why it's so difficult to diagnose!

Some have said it's because it was BMWs first attempt at electric steering, but I pulled the fuse out and drove with no assistance from the electric motor and it still happens, so it's definitely more mechanical.

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adam1985
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by adam1985 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:21 am

Yea I agree, think it is a combination of issues including old bushes and joints.
So far I have replaced tyres, wheels, lolipop bushes, RTAB, rear droplinks and had 2 alignments.
I have ordered a set of Meyle wishbones, front droplinks and track rod assemblies. Not sure when I will find time to fit them but will let you know if I make any improvement.
57 BMW 3.0si sport Coupe, Carbon Black, Bilstein B12 Suspension, CSL reps & style 339s for winter - Current
10 Skoda Fabia mk2 vRS, Rallye Green, Black Roof, Black Gigaro Alloys - Gone
08 Fiat Grande Punto Dynamic Sport, Red, Dual Sunroof - Gone

carl2990

Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by carl2990 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:23 pm

I'd be interested to see how you get on with the track rods, that's the one thing I can think of which would make a difference. It's either this, wheel bearings (doubtful, easy to check) or something in the steering column....or just the width of the tyres & the geometry of the car.

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adam1985
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by adam1985 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:14 pm

Yea im hoping track rods will make a difference as not many seem to say that they have replaced them when having these type of problems. I doubt its the tyres as its exactly the same with my winter tyres and summer tyres which are different sizes. Plus you would think that everyone would have the same issue with the wide tyres
57 BMW 3.0si sport Coupe, Carbon Black, Bilstein B12 Suspension, CSL reps & style 339s for winter - Current
10 Skoda Fabia mk2 vRS, Rallye Green, Black Roof, Black Gigaro Alloys - Gone
08 Fiat Grande Punto Dynamic Sport, Red, Dual Sunroof - Gone

Zeld4
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Zeld4 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:16 pm

carl2990 wrote:Unfortunately not. I've spent a few hundred now on new tyres, wishbones, bushes. Luckily the tracking check was free!

Until I'm more certain what the problem is, I'm putting up with it.

Spoken to a few mechanics and a few Z4 owners, some say it's down to the tyre width, tyre pressures, bad bushes etc.

Having a look on E46 forums, they mention the steering 'guibo' (steering coupler).

I think on every car, each has 1 or more of these issues, always leading to the same effect. This is why it's so difficult to diagnose!

Some have said it's because it was BMWs first attempt at electric steering, but I pulled the fuse out and drove with no assistance from the electric motor and it still happens, so it's definitely more mechanical.
Could I ask that when you had the wheel alignment done did they reset the electronic self centering steering?

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