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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Discuss problems you have had or are having with your Z4
Marc'sCoupe
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Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Marc'sCoupe » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:22 pm

Ok so looking for some ideas of what this could possibly be..Ill try my best to describe it but that never has been my strong point!!

Basically when motorway driving as soon as I get over 65/70 mph the whole car feels very unstable, the wheel feels like it wants to pull itself out of your hands! You can feel the electric steering constantly correcting left and right all the time once you get to these speeds and it almost seems to get worse if your on a bend, obviously motorway bends aren't much of an angle but turning the wheel slightly off centre to do so at motorway speeds as a buttock clenching task!

I did perhaps wonder if I had a sticky brake/brakes because I've noticed that when im in town and on a slight hill I can take my foot of the brake and it wont roll for at least 1 or 2 seconds, which is actually quite handy for hill starts but Im sure it shouldn't be like this! - The other thing that is making me suspect this problem is that when Im driving in town say under 25-30 mph then I get a sort of chu chu chu chu chu chu chu noise from the wheels, which makes me think the disk is rubbing on the pad unevenly? Perhaps a warped disk?

Surely I cant be confined to the slow lane with the corsas and fiestas forever!?

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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by adam1985 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:59 pm

I have this problem as well although it appears to be intermitant and it doesn't stop me driving at 70 as it doesn't seem that bad on mine. I sometimes get a slight rubbing noise as well but you can only hear it with the windows down and music off.
The fact that the car doesn't roll is due to the hill holder function where the car deliberately leaves the brakes on to prevent rolling back on hill starts.
I checked my bushes, disks, pads and calipers and all seem fine so am at a bit of a loss. It has been suggested that it could be alignment or wheel balancing but I have had those checked too.
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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Toe-side » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:15 pm

This is a 'common' thread and forum problem. Very frustrating and i don't think we ever had a definitive answer or found a smoking gun! :cry:
Check
Tracking
Bushes....... Front wish bone rears wear very quickly and significantly affect handling and tracking
Tyres Type and pressures
Then start scratching your head. :headbang:
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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Spikey » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:16 pm

Push sport button- it tightens up then?

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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Zikim » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:08 pm

I have the same issue and have come to the conclusion that it is to do with the steering angle sensor or self centreing system. I can feel this when travelling over 60mph on a right hand bend the steering wheel gives slight pushes or oscillation pulses anticlockwise I.e trying to self centre the steering.

It is worse first thing in the morning but when driven in the warmer afternoon disappears due to slight sticky steering which makes the steering heavier. The solution I am now going to try is fitting offset front wishbone rear bushes which will add half a degree of castor making the steering heavier and therefore cancelling the feeling of the oscillation. I think Toe-side has had some success by adding more toe-in to make the steering heavier.

My Sport button unfortunately makes no difference to steering weight at speed, although I can feel a slight difference at very low speeds below 10mph.

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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Newbers » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:24 pm

Hi All,

Are you sure this is not tyres? The problems are well documented on the forum. My advice, don't let front tyres get too tired (no pun intended). It's very obvious when they start to get a bit wayward. You can then put them on the back and replace with fresh and you'll be driving a different car.

Apologies if you are already familiar with this.

/N
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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Zikim » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:04 am

Newbers wrote:Hi All,

Are you sure this is not tyres? The problems are well documented on the forum. My advice, don't let front tyres get too tired (no pun intended). It's very obvious when they start to get a bit wayward. You can then put them on the back and replace with fresh and you'll be driving a different car.

Apologies if you are already familiar with this.

/N
No, this is not a problem with tyres (types or pressures). I have recently found out that the previous owner had the issue (but he didn't tell me!) and since owning the car for 12 months I have changed tyres, bushes, etc so problem would seem to be inherent in something else - hence steering angle sensor or self centreing system.

Interestingly this had never been raised as an issue with the Z4M, what is different between the Z4 and the Z4M? - one has electronic power steering and the other has hydraulic power steering!!!

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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Newbers » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:03 am

Hmm. Outside of my experience I'm afraid. Sounds horrible - good luck sorting it out. Please keep us updated on your progress.
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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by mr wilks » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:26 am

Marc'sCoupe wrote:
I did perhaps wonder if I had a sticky brake/brakes because I've noticed that when im in town and on a slight hill I can take my foot of the brake and it wont roll for at least 1 or 2 seconds, which is actually quite handy for hill starts but Im sure it shouldn't be like this! -

The other thing that is making me suspect this problem is that when Im driving in town say under 25-30 mph then I get a sort of chu chu chu chu chu chu chu noise from the wheels, which makes me think the disk is rubbing on the pad unevenly? Perhaps a warped disk?
Won't the 2 second pause be hill assist working as it should ?
A warped disc should be felt under light breaking , a binding caliper is possible ? After a run where brakes have been used a fair amount feel each caliper & if one is noticeably hotter than the others then attention required .
Don't think that's your problem solved though :? i would first have all front bushes/control arms checked for play , tyres next followed by a decent alignment done :thumbsup:
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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by stupot67 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:54 am

Hi,
If you accelerate thru 65-70mph zone does the feeling go away? - If so it would point to a balance problem, the harmonics of most balance issues show themselves at this sort of speed.

I don't buy this being an issue with steering angle sensors, the EPS assists when torque is applied to the steering wheel by the driver, the amount of assist is dictated by road speed. The steering angle sensors main roll in life is to give a reference to the DSC so that the different wheel speeds during cornering are seen as normal and not a loss of traction.

I had a similar problem with a Jag i owned several years ago, Having the wheels road force balanced cured that, never showed up during stadard dynamic balancing (The fella that did it said this issue is becoming more of an issue with low profile rubber) - Strangley putting a spare set of 17's on the car while the wheels were away (Had them refurbed at the same time) the car drove perfectly, despite there being 4 different brands of tyres.

I suppose this raises the question, does anyone running around on 16-17" rims experience this issue?

Stu.

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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Nelly Welly » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:07 am

I had this exact problem and it was a combination of a sticky calliper and lollipops.

Having done the tyre changing and pressures I was at a loss and only when the calliper really seized and I knew I had to change it was there any improvement then I did the lollipops at the same time as I had the car in the air.

Like a totally different car relaxing when driven instead of always having to be aware of the tracking and steering wander.

Good luck.
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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by hopz121 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:25 am

Have you had a 4 wheel allignment?

I had similar issues to this, changed the front lollipops and RTAB's (Polybushes for both) and had a proper 4 wheel allignment by someone who knew exactly what they were doing and now it drives amazing.

I went with M settings on the geo which is slightly less rear camber, many others have doen the same and had good results.

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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by z4pilot » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:26 am

Funnily enough I'm just in the process (hopefully) of getting a similar issue sorted. My steering had started to feel a little wayward, which when I found the left front caliper sticking, gave me the excuse to swap out the caliper and upgrade the discs for MTEC drilled jobbies. Unfortunately this hasn't solved the issue of vague steering and a slight oscillation of the wheel at 35mph. My lollipop bushes are also showing too much play, so it's back in this morning for replacements and balancing. Fingers crossed that this is the solution!
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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Zikim » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:07 am

There has not been one reported instance of this problem on a Z4M, yet it shares most of the same/similar suspension as the Z4 (bushes, inks, etc). What is different is hydraulic power steering on the Z4M against electronic power steering on the Z4.

I have tried the Z4M alignment on my car and it makes no difference.

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Re: Scary/Twitchy feel over 65mph!

Post by Marc'sCoupe » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:16 pm

Thanks for the responses guys, ok so to cover all bases I guess I have to start somewhere so Im going to head down the road to my local tyre shop and see if they can check the wheel balance as I guess a weight wrong here or there isn't going to help...but its probably also not going to be the solution.

Then Ill get the wishbone bushes checked and a 4 wheel alignment. The tracking was supposedly checked by the garage when I brought it because I said I wanted it doing as on the test drive it seemed to pull to the left, they blamed this on the camber on the roads around their area which to be fair I've not had that issue driving around Bournemouth.

My sport button doesn't really seem to make any difference to the steering at all, it makes a difference to the throttle response for sure but I cant notice a difference to the steering!

Then if its no the brakes then...well I guess its back to the drawingboard!

Someone asked above if the feeling goes away after 70? No sadly not...it remains the same, to be honest I've not been brave enough to take it past 80/85 to make sure because it feels that worrying!

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