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First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Specific discussion about the E89 2009 Z4 (sDrive35is, sDrive35i, sDrive30i, sDrive23i)
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R.E92
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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by R.E92 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:42 pm

stuartinzg wrote:
R.E92 wrote:I've also never heard of the DCT box changing though, I thought all E89 Z4 and E9x M3 cars had the same box.
AFAIK, it used to be the GETRAG Powershift® 7DCI600 TRANSMISSION, which the M3 also used (correct), but that is no longer produced, and Getrag only advertise the 7DCI700, which is shown here, in a wider range of cars, including the current Z4.

http://www.getrag.com/media/products/po ... DCI700.pdf

If you go here, you'll see the 600 is no longer in the list

http://www.getrag.com/en/products/power ... sions.html

Click: 7DCI700

Used in M3, M4, M6 and Z4
http://www.getrag.com/media/products/po ... I700~2.pdf

Interestingly enough the Ferrari California used the 7DCI600 and owners reported a lot of failures. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/califo ... ure-3.html

Perhaps Getrag simply upgraded the box and all cars which previously used the 600, now get the 700? Whereas Ferrari no longer use it?

That means for Z4 owners, the newer models with the 700 box provides more tuning potential without changing clutch packs. Mine is a Oct 2010 build, so I'll be on the older box. :thumbsup:
I did read a lot about the Ferrari failures before buying my car but after reading through forums I've never really seen a DCT box in a BMW break as a result of increased torque.

I usually rely on realoem for parts information on BMWs. It looks like the same transmission is still being used on the new cars.
2009 35i: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=28_0000
2009 35is: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=28_0000
2015 35is: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=28_0000

It may be that BMW have kept with the older gearbox and Getrag are still producing it but just not advertising it. I would imagine they need to keep producing it to guarantee availability for future spare parts.

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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by stuartinzg » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:46 pm

True but if the components only changed internally and BMW see the box as a "single unit", then it's perfectly feasible for the part number according to BMW to remain the same, and any that break are upgraded. When a box breaks BMW can't fix it and don't even offer a fix, it gets sent away to Getrag - this whole process could be completely transparent to BMW. I can't imagine they would keep producing a unit which is less reliable/capable than their 700. I would bet a round of beers if you took apart a new box it would be the 700 with the older one the 600 -that's why Getrag have the Z4 down as 700 on their website. But when my car was made, 700 wasn't available.
Last edited by stuartinzg on Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by stuartinzg » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:49 pm

That website also shows 3 different boxes for the same car

01 Dual-clutch transmission GS7D36SG - BMT 1 07/2012 07/2013 28007640956
01 Dual-clutch transmission GS7D36SG - BE2 1 07/2013 03/2015 28008605207
01 Dual-clutch transmission GS7D36SG - BE2 1 03/2015 28008647464

3 different part numbers, and each one says "superseeded by X... interchangeable"

Something definitely going on here :)
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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by stuartinzg » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:50 pm

BTW This is a nice upgrade for our box:
http://www.sspperformance.com/bmw-dct-g ... ckage.html
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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by R.E92 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:53 pm

stuartinzg wrote:
R.E92 wrote:My car runs smooth since a walnut blast, new injectors, plugs, o2 sensors and coils.
:rofl:

Great... well I've done the plugs! :P

I guess I'll keep trying in order of cheapness :thumbsup:

Did you see that BMW are now using new suppliers for Coils - did you buy those ones or same as you had before? The new coils are apparently much better quality (I wrote another post about it).

I'll investigate the idle speed, thanks :thumbsup:
Kept with Bosch coils as I got a good price while they were on sale at ECP. The Bosch coils that I removed were still working fine but I decided to replace them purely because of OCD. I had new injectors and plugs so just felt compelled to buy new coils!

With the gearbox I don't think you will be able to get the thing to slip if you keep to a flash only tune. Since we don't get ethanol here and I'm guessing you aren't going to be using meth your power will be capped by octane rather than what the gearbox can hold.

If you get a pro tune you can ask that the tuner doesn't go overboard on the midrange torque which seriously helps the clutch. My advice would be to forget about using launch control though, it seems to really hammer the gearbox.

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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by stuartinzg » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:53 pm

Ref original topic: I'll go do another 3rd gear pull on the way to IKEA later, with the cylinder 1 timing included as you suggested and report back
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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by stuartinzg » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:56 pm

R.E92 wrote:
stuartinzg wrote:
R.E92 wrote:My car runs smooth since a walnut blast, new injectors, plugs, o2 sensors and coils.
:rofl:

Great... well I've done the plugs! :P

I guess I'll keep trying in order of cheapness :thumbsup:

Did you see that BMW are now using new suppliers for Coils - did you buy those ones or same as you had before? The new coils are apparently much better quality (I wrote another post about it).

I'll investigate the idle speed, thanks :thumbsup:
Kept with Bosch coils as I got a good price while they were on sale at ECP. The Bosch coils that I removed were still working fine but I decided to replace them purely because of OCD. I had new injectors and plugs so just felt compelled to buy new coils!

With the gearbox I don't think you will be able to get the thing to slip if you keep to a flash only tune. Since we don't get ethanol here and I'm guessing you aren't going to be using meth your power will be capped by octane rather than what the gearbox can hold.

If you get a pro tune you can ask that the tuner doesn't go overboard on the midrange torque which seriously helps the clutch. My advice would be to forget about using launch control though, it seems to really hammer the gearbox.
These are the new coils used by BMW viewtopic.php?f=23&t=84188
New BMW ignition coil part number 12138657273 is now Eldor not Bosch
"There is dramatically a BIG difference in quality between the Bosch/BMW vs the Eldor/BMW coil"

Must be a reason they changed ?

Good point midrange torque. My power will be max sensible values for an FBO (410~ about what you have).

By the way, you have no info about your car on the forum - do you have any threads? Is it a Z4? I see your username is E92
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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by R.E92 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:22 pm

stuartinzg wrote:
R.E92 wrote:
stuartinzg wrote:
:rofl:

Great... well I've done the plugs! :P

I guess I'll keep trying in order of cheapness :thumbsup:

Did you see that BMW are now using new suppliers for Coils - did you buy those ones or same as you had before? The new coils are apparently much better quality (I wrote another post about it).

I'll investigate the idle speed, thanks :thumbsup:
Kept with Bosch coils as I got a good price while they were on sale at ECP. The Bosch coils that I removed were still working fine but I decided to replace them purely because of OCD. I had new injectors and plugs so just felt compelled to buy new coils!

With the gearbox I don't think you will be able to get the thing to slip if you keep to a flash only tune. Since we don't get ethanol here and I'm guessing you aren't going to be using meth your power will be capped by octane rather than what the gearbox can hold.

If you get a pro tune you can ask that the tuner doesn't go overboard on the midrange torque which seriously helps the clutch. My advice would be to forget about using launch control though, it seems to really hammer the gearbox.
These are the new coils used by BMW viewtopic.php?f=23&t=84188
New BMW ignition coil part number 12138657273 is now Eldor not Bosch
"There is dramatically a BIG difference in quality between the Bosch/BMW vs the Eldor/BMW coil"

Must be a reason they changed ?

Good point midrange torque. My power will be max sensible values for an FBO (410~ about what you have).

By the way, you have no info about your car on the forum - do you have any threads? Is it a Z4? I see your username is E92
BMW went Bosch originally, then Delphi now Eldor. I imagine they want to improve reliability so the new parts should be better but I got the Bosch coils for £14 each and the Eldor ones were up at £22~.
One member used some uber quality Okada coils on his N54 at £1000 (from memory, not 100% sure on price) for a set and said he felt they made no difference so I just stuck with what I knew worked.

I had a 320d when I joined the forum in search of my Z4 hence the E92. I've got a Z4 35i now. I'm not really one for taking photos and the like, I haven't washed my car for 3 months and from the exterior it's just a silver Z4 with CSL reps so nothing worthy of a photoshoot :P
Funnily enough, even with 3 months worth of crap stuck to it I get people commenting on the looks of the car, quite high praise for the E89!

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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by 35i-Nut » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:57 pm

stuartinzg wrote:I finally got around to buying the MHD Logging licence for the MHD N54 app in the Android store.

After much faffing with adapters which communicate to the car properly, extension cables, OTG cables and a Micro USB to USB-C adapter, plus the Brodit setup! I can finally get it talking to the car.

Image

I thought I would see how the engine is currently operating, lots more information here than I fully understand - but plan to research more and see what it all means - also posted on N54tech to see what the tuners have to say about the running rich/lumpy idle. Perhaps the 3rd gear pull will show something. No errors in the DME, 98 ron, recent service+new plugs.

Link to all the data(I think around 15 different readings)/interactive graph: http://datazap.me/u/stuartinzg/3rd-gear ... &data=4-21
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Ive been doing lots of reading up on the MHD flasher on the other american forums , big following for it in the US , seems its taking over from COBB for the prefered tuning module

Could you please provide some further info , or links to the various cables you have bought to get this up and running

Ive read certain cables dont work , would be nice to buy all the right leads first time around before I start tinkering :lol:

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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by stuartinzg » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:03 pm

35i-Nut wrote: Ive been doing lots of reading up on the MHD flasher on the other american forums , big following for it in the US , seems its taking over from COBB for the prefered tuning module

Could you please provide some further info , or links to the various cables you have bought to get this up and running

Ive read certain cables dont work , would be nice to buy all the right leads first time around before I start tinkering :lol:
Sure, sorry for my late reply.

I'm really happy with this latest pull, 329hp~ estimated which is around 378-380 at the crank. I didn't bother going to 7000, changed at 6500 or lower I think.

I've managed to capture timing too, so I'll pop that up to datazap.

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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by stuartinzg » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:09 pm

Zap results: http://datazap.me/u/stuartinzg/serviced ... 4-18-21-25

Seems to be some timing corrections but I don't really understand it - can anyone help me out?
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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by 35i-Nut » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:23 pm

stuartinzg wrote:
35i-Nut wrote: Ive been doing lots of reading up on the MHD flasher on the other american forums , big following for it in the US , seems its taking over from COBB for the prefered tuning module

Could you please provide some further info , or links to the various cables you have bought to get this up and running

Ive read certain cables dont work , would be nice to buy all the right leads first time around before I start tinkering :lol:
Sure, sorry for my late reply.

I'm really happy with this latest pull, 329hp~ estimated which is around 378-380 at the crank. I didn't bother going to 7000, changed at 6500 or lower I think.

I've managed to capture timing too, so I'll pop that up to datazap.

Image
Your results look good ! any more info on the cables and accessories you needed for your install ?

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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by R.E92 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:44 pm

stuartinzg wrote:Zap results: http://datazap.me/u/stuartinzg/serviced ... 4-18-21-25

Seems to be some timing corrections but I don't really understand it - can anyone help me out?
That log is fine for stock.
The stock map is far from perfect and if that log were to come from a tuned car I would advise you ask them to re-do it!

The main points I check are:

Cyl1-6 Timing Cor* - These are the timing corrections that are due to knock. This log doesn't have any but minor corrections are fairly normal even on a stock car.

Boost mean PSI vs Boost target PSI - I compare these to make sure the boost is smooth and at least shadowing the requested boost. Oscillating boost mean PSI would mean the PID is setup poorly and needs tweaking.

Throttle Position - This should read 81 while your foot is on the floor. If your accelerator pedal position reads 99.6% and the throttle is reading less than 81 that means the DME is intervening and closing the throttle for some reason. The usual causes are traction control and the boost mean PSI going above the boost target PSI.
In your log the car is overboosting above 6000RPM so the throttle closes slightly to reduce the boost.

Timing cyl.1 crk* - This is the actual ignition advance being targeted. All cylinders target the same ignition adv unless knock is detected. In that case the individual cylinder will temporarily have a correction factor applied to prevent super knock.
In your log the timing is great until you shift. During the shift the boost spikes and the DME retards timing (this retardation is not logged as a correction because it's not knock related). You see that purple line jumping about after the shift, that's the DME trying to protect the transmission from excessive torque I think. It's normal for the timing to go flat for a millisecond during shift but it should jump right back up after, and not dip like in that log.
The boost spike during shift is something I'm trying very hard to tune out on my own map, it seems to happen on all DCT transmissions and is probably due to the speed of the shift and the timing retardation the DME uses during shift to lower engine torque and aid clutch engagement.

stft 1% and stft 2% - These are the short term fuel trims applied to banks 1 and 2 respectively to keep the AFR on target. Basically anything above 15% or below -15% is bad and you're engine is getting close to being unable to achieve the correct targeted AFR. This is usually down to bad Lamba sensors, bad injectors or fuel pumps not supplying enough pressure to the injectors.
There is also long term fuel trims that can be logged, you should try ticking those in the logging options. You can read up about long and short term fuel trims on any forum as it's a common air/fuel management system applied to all engine ECUs.

Fuel low pressure sensor - The N54 usually has a low pressure fuel sensor. If this reads below 50 you have a bad low pressure fuel sensor. The Z4 35i/s is the only car with an N54 not to have this sensor. This is probably due to the fact we have a much better fuel pump than other N54 cars with larger diameter fuel lines so it was deemed unnecessary.

Rail Pressure PSI - If this falls below 1500 you have a bad high pressure fuel pump and should get it sorted. The car will not go into limp mode in the event on a lean running condition so you can actually cause serious damage pushing the car hard on a bad HPFP.

Lamba Bank 1/2 AFR - This is the air fuel ratio reading in each respective bank. Stock cars run rich, tuned cars will run a little leaner for more power and fuel econonmy. If you look at the readings of both banks during overrun while the fuel is cutoff to the engine you should see both readings max out at 234.95. If one is reading anything less you have a leaking injector in that bank.


These are the key channels I tend to look at when evaluating a log. If you ever decide to custom tune your car you will get to know more channels but if you are just evaluating the health of a car and not trying to tweak a map the above points will serve you well.

With the DCT the torque limit active channel is also quite useful. On tuned cars you sometimes get values in that channel during shifts which indicate transmission slip and over torque. JB4 users will tend to see these more than others as their crappy little piggyback toasts their clutchpacks :rofl:

With the MHD maps you will be safe. Wedge knows how to manage the DCT shifts in his tunes.

When you decide to apply a tune to your car feel free to post the logs here and I'll take a look for you.

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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by R.E92 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:50 pm

35i-Nut wrote:Your results look good ! any more info on the cables and accessories you needed for your install ?
The only things you need to use MHD are:

- Android device that supports OTG. If you are unsure just google your device along with the phrases OTG support and you will get your answer.

- USB OTG adapter - Buy a good quality one from a brand you recognise not an eBay special. Make sure it's the correct USB fitment for your Android USB port, either USB Micro A or USB Micro B.

- OBD2 cable - The best source for these is the cable shack store http://stores.ebay.co.uk/cable-shack-store Make sure to get one that supports the E89 Z4. PM the seller if you are unsure.

- MHD app from the store

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Re: First MHD Logging results (OEM BMW map)

Post by stuartinzg » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:56 pm

R.E92 wrote:...Lots of great info....
Thanks, that's really helpful. Would you say that the car is running healthy enough for a stage 1 tune?

Some observations based on your feedback-

1. I see that at 6656rpm, stft1% is at -14.7, this seems close to your -15 ?
2. Rail pressure is low to start (I assume because not full throttle) and then goes high, gradually tailing off to 1528@5678rpm, then bumps up again and holds steady at 1900-2000 for the next 750rpm, any ideas why?
3. Lambda randomly spikes at 4800, I don't see a 234.95 anywhere?

Hmm... now I'm more confused than before ! :wink: A little knowledge is dangerous, eh?
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